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Subject: Air Superiority and the Navy
leoinnyc    1/24/2004 11:08:00 AM
The last F-14Ds are scheduled to be retired in 2008. I am curious what you guys think will happen to the carrier's role without an organic, dedicated air superiority platform. While there are many scenarios where the F-35 and the F-18 will prove a perfectly adequate force in the air-to-air role, there are also many potential situations in which there will be distinct mission that hey cannot perform, or perform well. How will ceding the air superiority mission to the Air Force effect the Navy, and how will it effect our military's ability to effectively project power in the future? Will the Air Force's concept of Force Application and Launch from Continental United States (FALCON) further erode NAVAIR's mission? How will the downsizing of the Naval air tanker fleet impact these issues? On a more positive note: Between the lack of an air superiority mission, and the integration of Marine Aviation assets, will the Navy become the go-to air force for the Army, who are always looking for more air support, which the Air Force is always reluctant to provide (as apparently happened in Afghanistan)? Lastly, will the MOB (Mobile Offshore Base) be fielded, and will it impact NAVAIR?
 
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Mark F    This question has already been addressed   1/24/2004 12:28:07 PM
There are numerous recent, active threads regarding the retirement of the Tomcat - which is BTW, by no means a dedicated aire-superiority platform anymore. I also don't see when or where the Navy has "ceded" the air superiority mission to the Air Force.
 
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leoinnyc    RE:This question has already been addressed   1/24/2004 7:14:49 PM
This is not meant to be another Tomcat vs. Hornet debate. There is a fundamental shift in Naval Aviation capabilities occuring right now, and a lot of competition from the Air Force to take away the justification for significant elements of Naval Aviation. The most obvious example being FALCON. If you can strike anywhere in the world within a reasonable amount of time, and you can do it more cheaply and more quickly than you can with carriers... Etc., Etc.
 
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Mark F    RE:This question has already been addressed   1/24/2004 8:28:35 PM
You act like competition between the Navy and Air Force for aviation funding is a new thing. Remember the USS United States?
 
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elcid    F-14: a technical failure   2/21/2004 3:38:34 AM
We don't buy F-14s because they were a technical failure. They were built around the Phoenix long range, dogfighting missile. It forced the plane to be big and carriers to carry it to be big. But the missile itself is a failure. It was fired in anger in 1991 in the Gulf War, but the rounds did not hit. The missile has been retired, so in air-air terms the F-14 is no better armed than an F-18 (or F-15) is. And all these planes have both radar and heat seeking weapons of considerable value. But the F-14 has a radar which makes it betray its location at fantastic ranges - not an advantage in modern air combat. The F-18 is a better buy now, and there will be a new F-18 shortly to take up the slack.
 
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Mark F    RE:F-14: a technical failure   2/21/2004 7:17:48 AM
The F-14 was not a technical failure. It has its problems, but is has been a success in service with a few caveats. It's problems can be traced back to the fact it was a crash program designed to get into service quickly to replace the ultimate solution, the cancelled F-111B. Not unlike the Super Hornet really. No AIM-54 Pheonix were fired during Operation Desert Storm BTW. The first U.S. combat firings of AIM-54 did not occur until 1999. Prior to that it was used by Iran with some success. Of course, the F-14 could fire AIM-7 and AIM-9 as well. The F-14 had no impact on carrier size either. That would be the Douglas A-3 Skywarrior which preceeded the F-14 by a couple of decades. The current production carrier design, the Nimitz, was more or less finalized before the F-14 came along.
 
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JJFS    RE:F-14: a technical failure   2/21/2004 8:49:30 PM
"The first U.S. combat firings of AIM-54 did not occur until 1999." Yeah?
 
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