f-14 replacement

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x-29/a-12 RE:f-14 replacement -- bsl tomcat upgrade 3/28/2003 12:18:33 PM

I would guess that the vstol version of the F-35 would have a lot less payload and/or range than a carrier suitable version. Big problem with VSTOL is that you have to lift your own weight and their is a certain limit. This limits the max gross weight of the VSTOL aircraft. If VSTOL aircraft can get a forward roll they can increase their payload substantially.

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Thomas RE:f-14 replacement -- bsl tomcat upgrade 5/8/2003 3:23:48 AM

If you look at history: The really difficult problem in aircraft development is the development of the aircraft ENGINE. If the F-119 engine lives up to hopes and expectations. Any aircraft with this engine will have enough power to dispense with the need for VTOL/STOVL, as the take off run will be limited. It will have enough power to carry the low speed devises for low landing speed. Simultaneously the development in precision munition will reduce the need for sheer weightlifting. The drastically improved specifik fuel consumption will increase range to get out of the uncomfortable range shortage of the F18 (alphabet soup), compounded with the carriers need to stay out Exocet-type range. Nasty Air Force jibe: If the navy can't sail their expensive toys close enough to the bad guys, their planes can't reach the bad guys without refuelling - then why not dispense with naval airpower all-together: Use real BOMBERS, which could be produced at a reasonable price once you learn that stealth is expensive and overrated. There is no greatewr radar reflector than the B-52, which is still in daily use after half a century.

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x-29/a-12 RE:f-14 replacement -- bsl tomcat upgrade 5/8/2003 11:12:37 PM

<> Take off roll is as much a function of wing design, angle of attack etc. While you may be able to get the plane of the ground without a lift fan or ducted exhaust the aircraft would be horrible at or near supersonic speeds. Look at something like the YC-14. You have to look at the entire flight envelope not just the takeoff. I don't think that precision munitions will necessarily reduce the payload weight. I think it will reduce the overall number of delivery platforms instead. Precision weapons may allow one 500 lb bomb to take out a target but that doesn't mean that the payload will be reduced from 8 Mk-82's to 1. I means that the same aircraft can service 8 targets. The analogy is in the Ballistic Missile realm. When the warheads got better, the number of warheads went up but the number of launchers went down.

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Thomas RE:f-14 replacement -- bsl tomcat upgrade 5/9/2003 2:58:09 AM

To X-29/A-12 I agree with you. My point was on another level: The really difficult thing is to develop aircraft engines (and submarine designs). Once You've got the engine the wrapping of aluminium and plastic foil around the engine is much easier. No great aeroplane has been made with a bad engine, but a lot of bad aircraft has had a good engine. About number of bombs. It might very well proceed in the direction you mention - which goes to my Air Force comment - Why not have a big bomber with bookkeepers that dispatch ordnance according to requests?

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x-29/a-12 RE:f-14 replacement -- bsl tomcat upgrade 5/17/2003 8:41:36 PM

<> I would disagree on that point. I think that engine design is extremely important, but the design of aircraft is not tied to a particular engine. Most commercial aircraft are designed to accept 3 different engines if not more. Most Boeings, except PW's GE's and Rolls. Often times the services will saddle a particular engine on a design team for cost constraints. Most designers tend to see engines as a source of thrust and are somewhat interchangable. Again, some aircraft are designed to accept multiple engines. The F-14 had a clunker of an engine with the TF-30 but the plane was great. The B-52 is another case in point. In this day and age, the airframe will long outlast the engine and engine technology. I can think of another example. I worked on a program where the old Grumman S2F had its old Wright Cyclone engines replaced with turboprops adding significant performance. A similar example is the KC-135R program. New engines can breathe new life into old airframes. Re precision weapons. My old B-52 is a great bus for dispensing precision weapons. Has two decks for lots of bookkeepers.

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DDX RE:f-14 replacement -- bsl tomcat upgrade 5/17/2003 10:53:23 PM

F14 replacement f18e/f. f18e/f powered by 2 22,000lb ST engines max speed m1.8 and is armed with AMRAAM missle range 35km aprox. It will be going up against su27/30 and mig29, both more manuverable and some armed with the AA12 range 50km aprox. The f18e/f lacks the f14 speed max m2.4 and long range missles aim54 range 150km+. The F18e/f needs more powerful engines something in the 25,000lbST - 32,000lbST class possibly including 2D/3D TVC or supercruise and either the EADS BVRAAM range 80km+, AMRAAMER range probably double AMRAAM (70km?) or new LR A/A missles. These enhancements along with the planned AESA radar, Helmet mounted targeting system, aim9X, AFLIR will make it one of the most capable aircraft in the world. Far more capable than the Su27/30.

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Thomas RE:f-14 replacement -- bsl tomcat upgrade 5/19/2003 2:34:58 AM

To x-29/a-12. Lets start with the B-52. The B-52 achieved greatnes with the H model, which has the TF-33 or JT3D in civilian parlance - which is one of the great engines. I agree with your evaluation of the B-52 and the "bookkeepers" and precision weapons. The F-14 and the TF-30. I think the F-14 has been kept from its full potential by a bad engine. I don't think the F-14 is a great an aeroplane compared to the F-15 (boy will there be missiles coming after me). The F-15 is more versatile, has been involved in more fighting and never lost. The F-14 has prevailed because there hasn't been any serious opposition to CVBG of the US. To use the F-14 as a Bombcat is to use what is available - I'd hate to see it against a competent air defence. Even the S-2. The S-2F turboprop is definately also a good engine. so it doesn't count. The civilians : Well I attribute the growth of the airline industry to three factors: The P&W Twin Wasp: Connie and SuperConnie with intercontinental reach The P&W JT-3D: which made flying affordable The 3 great "big-fan" from GE, P&W and RR. They made flying economical. The engines must all be great or the fierce competition would have eliminated one or more from the market. Now if You had mentioned the Hawker Hunter I would have been in real trouble.

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HJ F-14 and F/A1-8E/F engines 12/21/2004 2:04:03 AM

Go back two posts where author refers to Tomcat as M2.4 fighter...in actuality the Tomcat was designed when speed was thought to be a primary attribute. not too many Phantoms flew around at Mach 2 as it turned out and the Tomcat was NATOPS limited to M1.8 and with a typical combat loadout couldn't get much past M1.2 anyway so don't get hypnotized by high Mach numbers. YOu just arc when you turn anyway (speed counts for SR-71s though but they're way up there and need to be fast). Super Hornet is a fine "platform" as designed.

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gixxxerking RE:F-14 and F/A1-8E/F engines 12/21/2004 3:27:44 AM

I love the Tomcat but I think the time has come to modernize Naval Air. The F/A-18 platform is an excellent choice and has more potential today. F-14s are likely(My Opinion) approaching the end of their service lives compared to F/A-18. The JSF is also a good idea. It will really help to have a common airframe when it comes to maintenance and logistics. The stealth features will also greatly add to the U.S. Navy. I love a hot plane like anyone else. But I believe outright performance is no longer as critical as it used to be. Tail Slides and Cobras are nice, but how exactly does that save you from a data-linked, low observable plane that can kill at 60km using all aspect off boresight missiles and maintain a 90%+ availability rate?

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HJ RE:F-14 and F/A-18E/F engines 12/21/2004 9:34:47 AM

The Tomcat has had a great run...how many front-line aircraft serve for 35 years??? The airframes are tired and require a lot of downtime compared to the Super Hornet. As to maneuverability, it still counts as not matter how stealthy you are, or how greta your dat-linked info is from any source, a variety of factors can result in "a merge" happening where high off-boesight weapons systems like AIM-9X or AA-11 with associated helmet cueing system really make the difference and it would be nice to be able to pull a lot of g, etc.

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gixxxerking RE:F-14 and F/A-18E/F engines 12/21/2004 2:22:41 PM

The reason why I am not as conscerned about manuverabilty is that modern AAM missiles can easily outmanuver any manned aircraft. Not to mention 9 G's is about the limit for most pilots. So as long as your fighter is in the 7.5-9g range. I think thats enough for manned aircraft. More important at this point is ability to escape detection and BVR engagements.

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HJ To engage or not to engage 12/21/2004 7:45:23 PM

Good points, but you may not have the option to avoid a "jousting" type encounter. Missiles are better than ever, but so are countermeasures and countertactics so equally equipped fighters flown by aviators with good skills and SA may end up staring at each other across the circle regardless of technology.

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gixxxerking RE:To engage or not to engage 12/21/2004 7:58:54 PM

In those rare cases it will be up to the skill of the individual pilots and aviators right?

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HJ RE:To engage or not to engage 12/21/2004 10:47:04 PM

Not so rare depending on the mission assigned to the fighters

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gixxxerking RE:To engage or not to engage 12/22/2004 12:06:58 AM

but the outcome is still based on skill and tactics correct?

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