f-14 replacement

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Merc RE:f-14 replacement 6/9/2002 9:55:35 AM

Previously Soren Mateo wrote: > why can''t the f-35 be configured to carry > more weapons? The thing with the JSF is that stealth is a consideration. If you want the bird to remain stealthy, it will have to carry its weapon internally in bays. There are indeed provisions to hang weapons under the JSF's wings, but that negates its stealth advantage.

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nakito RE:f-14 replacement 6/9/2002 6:17:01 PM

soren, I don't think the f-14 is being replaced by the f-35/f/a-18e/f instead the f-14/f-18c/d airwings of today are going to replaced by an f-35/f-18e/f. currently an airwing is 10-14 f-14s, and 36 f-18c/ds. future is supposedly gonna be 10-14 f-35s, 24 f-18e's, 12 f-18f's. you can make ur own conclusions as to what is replacing what.

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bsl RE:f-14 replacement 6/9/2002 8:48:42 PM

F-18E/Fs are the replacements for the fighter role. F-35s for the attack role. Phoenixes are being dumped on the theory that they were intended to deal with Soviet heavy bomber threat which no longer exists. (Read Red Storm Rising for an idea of the sort of attack scenario they had in mind). There are problems with this. Way I heard the story, some senior Navy procurementpeople were seriously angry with Grumman (although I don't know why) so the proposals for upgrading the F-14 were, basically, toast before they were submitted. The F-18 people were just better plugged into the procurement politics. What they bought with the E/Fs was "somewhat improved" version of the C/Ds. Basically, the plane that was promised, orginally, when the A/Bs came out. A bit longer range. A better carry-back capability (don't have to dump unused heavy weapons as much), and a few other things. At a pretty substantial cost, in an era when the Navy is desperately short of funds to recapitalize most of what they have. A lot of people were unhappy with the decision, but, again as I've heard it, the contracts were written pretty tightly, and there may not be a way to save money if they try to cancel or reduce the F-18 buy. There's been talk for some years, now, of a new a-a missile which would be a bit shorter ranged than the Phoenix, but longer than the AAMRAAM and very high speed. No idea if it's being developed, or is still talk, though. There's also been a little talk about a navalised version of the F-22, but that's not close. It would be VERY expensive as well as requiring fairly substantial reengineering, to strengthen the airframe and landing gear for carrier ops.

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fred79 RE:f-14 replacement 3/21/2003 11:38:17 PM

there still isn't a navalized version of teh f-35 as far as I have heard. it was chosen with out any idea how it would work. I think the JSF was such a load of crap because it is really just 3 different aircraft.

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norden dont sell the tomcat yet 3/21/2003 11:59:49 PM

� No. 129-03 IMMEDIATE RELEASE March 20, 2003 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ U.S. NAVY'S F-14D TOMCATS GAIN JDAM CAPABILITY Naval Air Systems Command's (NAVAIR) F-14 Program Office announced today that it has accelerated and deployed a software upgrade program that will allow U.S Navy's F-14 D model Tomcats to carry Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM). Completed operational tests already in progress indicated that the software upgrade was mature and stable. The test community determined that with an acceleration of remaining critical tests, they could provide a recommendation for an early release of the JDAM capability. On Jan. 31, 2003, a NAVAIR software support team was assembled to modify the aircraft and install the new software. They reported aboard USS Theodore Roosevelt Feb. 2 and received required hardware two days later to start modifying F-14Ds. In 17 days, the team modified all forward deployed F-14Ds. The team loaded the software, assisted with the hardware modifications on the aircraft, and trained more than 90 aircrew and maintainers on JDAM employment. A Tomcat can carry four JDAMs, each weighing 2,000 pounds. March 1, 2003 marked the first operational employment of JDAM from an F-14D. "The Tomcat has proven itself time and again," said Capt. Peter Williams, NAVAIR F-14 program manager. "You could say that the cat has many lives and once again we've added more capability to a mature platform." For questions pertaining to the F-14 Program, contact Denise Deon, NAVAIR Public Affairs Office for TacAir, (301) ***-****. For questions pertaining to the JDAM Program, contact Sandra Schroeder, NAVAIR Public Affairs Officer for Strike Weapons and Unmanned Aviation, (301) ***-****.

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Hellfire RE:dont sell the tomcat yet 3/23/2003 6:19:55 PM

I think you should compare the F-14 with the F-18E equipped with the APG-79. This radar will retrofit all F-18Es by 2006. The APG-79 provides a huge increase of capabilities compared to the APG-73 or the F-14s radars. A long-range version of the AMRAAM - 60 miles - is also scheduled to enter service by 2006. The F-18E will use this missile at its max. It is the concept at the origin of the F-18E, that is a relatively inexpensive aicraft with very potent long-range air-to-air capabilities and HMCS for dogfight, with small RCS. I guess the navy has done enough simulations to validate the concept itself. There will also be a more powerful version of the F-414 by 2008 - +20% thrust -.

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bsl RE:f-14 replacement 3/23/2003 7:09:13 PM

fred, -The British are in the program specifically for their next generation of aircraft carriers. -If it's a bad design, then we've done one of the best sales jobs in history, because the number of other countries who are signed up for the program before the first production model rolls out is a record for aircraft projects.

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fred79 RE:f-14 replacement 3/23/2003 8:57:39 PM

I got my information watching the discovery channels show covering the competition between the f-35 and the x-32. while watching that show they showed how neither company was required to produce a naval landing version of the fighter and both designs would require radical changes to the airframe to make it capable of handling a carrier landing. I don't know what the british carriers have to do with it but I am sure that the vertical landing version would work for them well if it can offer enough range and weight carrying capability. I just think that to be a real JSF they should have designed a single airframe that could handle all the situations required. (meaning that any airforce f-35 should be able to be converted to a naval or marine version, so same frame same strength landing gear, same airenotical caracteristics,(so the naval and airforce can fly as slow).

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CockpitEng RE:f-14 replacement -- bsl tomcat upgrade 3/25/2003 12:31:23 AM

Short answer to the original question -- there is no replacement for the F-14. The F-14 was designed for Fleet Air Defense. The role was to get out as far away from the carrier task force as possible in full afterburner launch all your phoenix missiles at attacking bombers, turn around full ab back to the carrier. Rearm with Sidewinders and sparrrows and attack incoming cruise missles. In essence the role has been eliminated so there is no true replacement. The swing wing on the F-14 made it a magnificent and flexible plane. BSL-- <> I was a ipt engineer at Grumman in the 1980's. I worked on Grumman's ATF proposal. (The program ultimately resulted in the F-22 Raptor) After Grumman got knocked out at down select, it started working on the Naval ATF (NATF). The navy had problems with the F-18A's vis a vis cost, schedule and performance. The Naval Aviation had a lot of problems with the range, and load of the original F-18's. At Grumman, someone created a poster of the F-18 range extender. It was an A-6 with and F-18 under each wing. The F-18 was really the F-17 which lost out to the F-16. Because of various political reasons, the Navy was required to keep the F-18 afloat rather than pitching it. Congress was critical of the F-18 and the Navy couldn't admit defeat so it had to save the program. Thus was born the F-18 E/F. The NavAir wanted to end the A-6 program and dump the A-6F but Grumman lobbied Congress to keep it alive and for a while it almost worked. It was the A-6F that ticked off the Navy not the F-14. The A-6F was the baby of John Lehman, a reserve A-6 B/N. Once he was gone the program was toast. The Navy saw no need for the A-6F because it wanted the A-12 production sped up. McDonnell Douglas screwed up the F-18, low bid the A-12 contract and it died still born. Because of these problems, the Navy was short on funding. The F-14D program was curtailed, the F-14A+ program was curtailed, A-6 cancelled, A-12 dead and F-18A's that lacked range and payload. And no NATF. In around 1986, Grumman pitched Tomcat 2000. The Tomcat 2000 included air to ground capability, new engines, new radar, upgraded avionics and some low observable features. The Navy passed on the proposal because it was looking for a brand new design and thought that it would get the money. The money never came until JSF. The F/A-14 Bombcat came out of some of the Tomcat 2000 work. It was approximately 20 years after first flight that the Navy allowed the Tomcat to have a ground attack capability. Prior to that time, the Navy thought the Tomcat was too valuable to waste in a ground attack role. It is ironic that the F-18 E/F might never have existed if the Navy didn't think the Tomcat was too valuable in a Fleet Defense role.

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Hellfire RE:f-14 replacement -- bsl tomcat upgrade 3/25/2003 5:04:34 PM

mmh.. interesting. Do you have a link on Grumman's ATF?

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CockpitEng RE:f-14 replacement -- bsl tomcat upgrade 3/26/2003 11:06:48 PM

Don't know of one off hand. The Grumman ATF reportedly borrowed X-29 Forward Swept Wing Technology. That would make it the most maneuverable entry in the competition, however an FSW platform has a big radar return at the wing root, so it has a relatively large radar signature. That was the main reason for the demise of FSW investigation by USAF.

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CockpitEng RE:f-14 replacement -- bsl tomcat upgrade 3/26/2003 11:15:51 PM

Hellfire-- This is the only link I could find on a google search. link Interesting description of the ATF program

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Slade RE:f-14 replacement -- bsl tomcat upgrade 3/28/2003 8:55:19 AM

It isn't a link but there is a book called Lockheed Stealth by Bill Sweetman that has a discussion of the NATF proposals by various companies, along with a discussion of the JSF. For the previous poster there are 3 versions of the JSF, F-35A conventional, F-35B STOVL, and F-35C the carrier version. The F-35C made it's first flight on Dec 16, 2000 so it does exist and is at least in flight testing at this point. My source is the prviously mentioned book.

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fred79 RE:f-14 replacement -- bsl tomcat upgrade 3/28/2003 11:44:57 AM

thanks I appreciate that I would not have access to that kind of information. I was basing my coment on the discovery channels documentory on the project and the competition system. in that show neither compan y had time to develope a carrier version. but I still think that the carrier versions are vastly different than the other two versions and with the b version of the f-35 it is also very different due to teh added turbofan. I really wonder how different the range and armerment are between the carrier and the vstol air craft. the only reason I can think that the navy would still need a carrier version is if teh vstol doesn't have anywhere near the range or load carring capacity of a standard horizontal launch vehicle.

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x-29/a-12 RE:f-14 replacement -- bsl tomcat upgrade 3/28/2003 12:18:27 PM

I would guess that the vstol version of the F-35 would have a lot less payload and/or range than a carrier suitable version. Big problem with VSTOL is that you have to lift your own weight and their is a certain limit. This limits the max gross weight of the VSTOL aircraft. If VSTOL aircraft can get a forward roll they can increase their payload substantially.

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