RE: Subject: Varyag lost in Meditteranean- Fact or PYWAR!?

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elcid RE: Subject: Varyag lost in Meditteranean- Fact or PYWAR!? 2/19/2004 5:03:17 AM

Since the Varyag is in plain sight at Dailan shipyard, obviously she was not lost. And the Chinese have a world ranging naval tradition twice as old as the USN does. They also devised a "naval militia" system that won a strategic victory for three years (in Vietnamese application) - not a rumor - I was there the night we challenged the junks - and lost.

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gf0012-aus RE: Subject: Varyag lost in Meditteranean- Fact or PYWAR!? 2/19/2004 5:11:55 AM

I don't want to sound too flippant, but trading on the fact that a nation has had a long standing naval tradition and won a junk conflict does not translate into a capacity to co-ordinate a Carrier Battle Group, manage active air wings and co-ordinate the rest of the intricate subtleties that if not done peoperly will see escort ships turned into butter and aircraft swallow diving into the ocean attemting manouvres that are normally the professional province of the submarines. ;) If we use tradition as an example, then the Phoenicians and the Vikings would make excellent CAG commanders. Don't tke offense, but using the logic in a contrarian fashion - the swiss just won the America's Cup, and they are landlocked. Eg. Training, training and more training. As I said, don't take offense. But bthe logic doesn't support the issue.

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northernguy RE: Subject: Varyag lost in Meditteranean- Fact or PYWAR!?..elcid .. 4/9/2004 3:33:35 PM

elcid writes: quote Since the Varyag is in plain sight at Dailan shipyard, obviously she was not lost. And the Chinese have a world ranging naval tradition twice as old as the USN does. They also devised a "naval militia" system that won a strategic victory for three years (in Vietnamese application) - not a rumor - I was there the night we challenged the junks - and lost. endquote Some questions about what you posted. 1. What Chinese naval tradition was applied in a vietnamese context? 2. When was it applied? Was it being applied by the Chinese? 3. What force were you with when you say "we"? 4. What night were you challenged by these junks and where were you? 5. What do you mean by "junks"? 6. What do you mean by "lost"? Do you mean your targets ran into waters not legally accessible to you? Do you mean your craft was destroyed? Do you mean that you had to vacate the area rapidly to avoid a confrontation that you were unwilling to face for some reason? Northernguy

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bsl RE: Subject: Varyag lost in Meditteranean- Fact or PYWAR!? 4/9/2004 6:07:35 PM

"...the Chinese have a world ranging naval tradition twice as old as the USN does." Whoa, there, pard. Experiences of the Ming dynasty bear as much relation to the capabilities of the PLA as the experiences of the Roman army relate to the modern Italians. Or, if you're a stickler for dates, as much relevance as the fate of the Spanish Armada has to do with the modern Spanish Navy.

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