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Subject: Don't use Israeli bullets, you'll upset the anti-Semites
American Kafir    6/24/2004 9:37:16 PM
link ----- WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Israeli-made bullets bought by the U.S. Army to plug a shortfall should be used for training only, not to fight Muslim guerrillas in Iraq and Afghanistan, U.S. lawmakers told Army generals on Thursday. Since the Army has other stockpiled ammunition, "by no means, under any circumstances should a round (from Israel) be utilized," said Rep. Neil Abercrombie of Hawaii, the top Democrat on a House of Representatives Armed Services subcommittee with jurisdiction over land forces. The Army contracted with Israel Military Industries Ltd. in December for $70 million in small-caliber ammunition. The Israeli firm was one of only two worldwide that could meet U.S. technical specifications and delivery needs, said Brig. Gen. Paul Izzo, the Army's program executive officer for ammunition. The other was East Alton, Illinois-based Winchester Ammunition, which also received a $70 million contract. Although the Army should not have to worry about "political correctness," Abercrombie was making a valid point about the propaganda pitfalls of using Israeli rounds in the U.S.-declared war on terror, said Rep. Curt Weldon, the Pennsylvania Republican who chairs the subcommittee on tactical air and land forces. "There's a sensitivity that I think all of us recognize," Weldon told the Army witnesses, including Maj. Gen. Buford Blount, who led the U.S. Third Infantry Division that captured Baghdad in April 2003. Blount, now the Army's assistant deputy chief of staff, said the Army had sufficient small caliber ammunition -- 5.56mm, 7.62mm and .50 caliber -- to conduct current operations in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere. But taken together with training needs, the United States had strained its production facilities, he testified. "To fight a major combat operation in another theater will require the Army to impose restrictions on training expenditures and to focus current inventory and new production on combat operations," Blount said. As a result, he said the Army hoped to stretch U.S. supplies to supplement the capacity of the government-owned Lake City plant in Independence, Missouri, that currently makes more than 90 percent of U.S. small caliber ammunition. The Lake City factory, operated by Alliant Techsystems Inc., has nearly quadrupled its production in the past four years. This year, it will produce more than 1.2 billion rounds, Karen Davies, president of the ATK arm that runs it, told the panel. Lake City provided more than 2 billion rounds a year during World War II and Vietnam, she said. The Army's needs will grow to about 1.5 billion to 1.7 billion rounds a year in coming years, Blount said. "In the near-term, balancing training requirements with current operational needs is a manageable risk-mitigation strategy," he said. The Army does not want to repeat its history of building capacity during wartime "only to dismantle it in peacetime," Blount added. ----- Leave it to a Democrat to worry about the brand name of the bullet used to KILL TERRORISTS.
 
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displacedjim    RE:How does one ID... Quite Readily, Actually   6/28/2004 3:17:56 PM
Hmmm, now that I think about it a bit more, actually current Lake City headstamps are more likely to be four elements spaced at about 11 and 1 o'clock ( " L C " ), and the last two digits of the date at 7 and 5 o'clock. Sorry, I haven't spent much time lately sorting my cartridges. Displacedjim
 
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appleciderus    RE:How does one ID... Quite Readily, Actually   6/28/2004 3:21:57 PM
I was being sarcastic, but displacedjim brings something to the table. If information is stamped on the casing, why not mis-information? Hmmmm, .......
 
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doggtag    RE:How does one ID... Quite Readily, Actually   6/28/2004 7:24:10 PM
stamp "PRC" on the bottom of them!.
 
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Condor Legion    RE:How does one ID... Quite Readily, Actually   6/28/2004 10:42:30 PM
You'd be surprised at how much of that already happens. Intentional mis-stamping that is. Once upon a time I had a small, but very interesting brass collection myself. Still have some of it, packed away someplace. FIRE HAZARD, CL.
 
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sentinel28a    RE:How does one ID... Quite Readily, Actually   6/30/2004 2:59:01 AM
I was going to say "Made in Saudi Arabia," but PRC works too.
 
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scholar    A bullet's technical requirements   7/2/2004 11:12:01 AM
Why an Israeli company? Does the US have high requirements that no one else can meet? Or just weird requirements that the Israeli's can meet? Is this a compliment to Israel's ability to make high quality ammo or just some oddball thing where the US put out a job and the Israeli firm made the best bid?
 
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Scorpene    RE:A bullet's technical requirements   7/2/2004 2:20:36 PM
Israeli Military Industries has been producing small arms ammunition for a very long time, and turns out some really fine stuff. Match grade and what have you. They even have a hardened lead core SS-109 style 5.56 projectile that is designed to combine the penetrative characteristics of the steel core round with lower costs. According to them, it has eighty percent of the penetration (although this varies depending on conditions). The US has probably bought tons of ammo components from IMI, not only completed rounds but also projectiles and casings. US military small arms ammo has an ammo crimping ring around the primer pocket that is designed to make it more durable (and it's a pain to reload-- you have to ream the pocket with a special tool) and that's not a normal item on a case. All your commercial manufacture lacks it. I imagine then, that given this requirement alone IMI has done a lot of business for DoD.
 
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scholar    RE:A bullet's technical requirements   7/2/2004 2:36:14 PM
Thanks. I don't know anything about ammo other than that it hurts when it hits you.
 
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Condor Legion    RE:Don't use Israeli bullets, you'll upset the anti-Semites    7/2/2004 11:10:32 PM
ummm... Isn't this somewhat similar to the root cause of the Sepoy Mutiny? ...and didn't one of us recommend spreading the rumor that all US military ammo is dipped in pigfat as part of its manufacturing process? SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN, CL.
 
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