Swiss citizen arrested in Morocco (alternate title Moderate Islam in Action)

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Nanheyangrouchuan 12/7/2009 12:07:31 PM

You are missing the point. Is it illegal to spread other religions in Morocco? If so, those people broke the law.

It is not in western values to codify laws against religions recruiting new people.

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smitty237 12/7/2009 12:46:40 PM

You are missing the point. Is it illegal to spread other religions in Morocco? If so, those people broke the law.

It is not in western values to codify laws against religions recruiting new people.

No, Nan, it is you that is missing the point. This is a HUMAN RIGHTS issue. There is a reason that the Founding Fathers included religious freedom in the same ammendment as free press and free speech. Belief in a God may seem as reasonable to you as believing in fairies and pixie dust, but to most people in the world religion is the central focus in their lives. For this reason the free exercise of religion is recognized as a basic human right. Part of that free exercise is the ability to tell others about their faith, which would also be a free speech issue. Most Islamic nations have laws criminalizing the prosthletizing of other religions, but just because they pass laws does not make those laws just or right. Yemen allows girls to be married as early as nine years old, which could also been seen as an official endorsement of child rape. In other Muslim countries women are stoned to death for having sex outside of marraige, even if the sex was against her will. In Saudi Arabia and other Islamic countries women are prohibited by law from driving or holding certain jobs, and anyone can be sentenced to death for saying something that could be considered blasphemous towards Islam. By your logic, Nan, is all of that OK simply because Islamic countries have passed laws that cover it?

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Nanheyangrouchuan 12/7/2009 1:44:44 PM

You are missing the point. Is it illegal to spread other religions in Morocco? If so, those people broke the law.

It is not in western values to codify laws against religions recruiting new people.

So it is ok with you to go to another country and knowingly break the laws, then try to hide behind "values" as a defence?

Or, it is ok for people you agree with to do that in other countries, but not ok for people from those other countries to come to your country and use your laws as protection for their activities, such as recruiting for Islam in the US?

Islamic countries certainly don't do much for human rights, but Christianity's record is pretty spotty as well and doesn't exactly promote female equality (still).

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sentinel28a 12/7/2009 3:12:47 PM

Yeah, we Catholics just love oppressing our women! Why, we make them all wear burqas and stuff. Oh, and we stone 'em even though Jesus told us not to. And we make 'em cover their heads in Mass, too. And...well, we just oppress them and stuff. Well, I think we do, anyway...I mean, atheists keep saying we do, and they would have no axe to grind against Christianity, or anything...

Morocco is a moderate Muslim nation because probably Morocco will just kick them out and tell them never to come back. Sadly, I have to agree with Nan before he went off his meds towards the end of the post: it is Moroccan law, and these people probably knew that before they went. It shows how insecure Islam can be--I mean, if it's the best form of worship, then you should have nothing to fear from would-be evangelists, right?

Mormons knock on my door all the time. I like talking to them. I'll never convert, but I've found the open exchange of ideas is fun, educational, and entertaining. So do they.

Of course, in Nan's world, I gun them down as soon as they come to the door and hide the bodies at Wal-Mart, which pumps their ashes into the air and contributes to global warming.

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Nanheyangrouchuan 12/7/2009 3:52:44 PM

"Mormons knock on my door all the time. I like talking to them. I'll never convert, but I've found the open exchange of ideas is fun, educational, and entertaining. So do they.

Of course, in Nan's world, I gun them down as soon as they come to the door and hide the bodies at Wal-Mart, which pumps their ashes into the air and contributes to global warming."

I get offended that the Mormons selling the book of Mormon as a companion to the Bible or as John Smith as a quasi-Jesus, so I just ignore them.

And as I don't go to Wal-mart, I'd take the bodies to a mosque, synagogue or evangelical church who would immediately incinerate the bodies and the ashes would contribute to global cooling.

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timon_phocas 12/7/2009 5:45:36 PM

I know people who do Christian missionary work in closed countries. By and large, they accept the possibility of prison, torture or death as naturally as members of my Recon unit accepted the consequences of capture behind enemy lines.

On the other hand...

Islamic missionaries, funded by sovereign governments like Saudi Arabia, continually complain about any perceived infringement of their freedom as outrageous abrogations of their innate human rights.

I remember watching BBC coverage of police response to the 7/11 bombing, and of terrorists hollering , "I HAVE RIGHTS!!!" at the top of their lungs as they were being hauled out of their apartments.

So it would seem that Muslims do believe in innate human right, just not in their own countries.

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PlatypusMaximus 12/7/2009 10:15:11 PM

I think they had a layover at Kennedy back in the 70's...doesn't that give them the right to practice religion freely?

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smitty237 Nan 12/8/2009 12:50:59 AM

You are missing the point. Is it illegal to spread other religions in Morocco? If so, those people broke the law.

It is not in western values to codify laws against religions recruiting new people.

So it is ok with you to go to another country and knowingly break the laws, then try to hide behind "values" as a defence?

Islamic countries certainly don't do much for human rights, but Christianity's record is pretty spotty as well and doesn't exactly promote female equality (still).

Well, when it comes to going to another country and breaking their laws, I would apply the "big boy" rule in most circumstances, which pretty much states that if you are big enough to do the deed, then you are big enough to pay the penalty if you get caught. The distinction I would make in this case is that there is a big difference between going to a foreign country to start a smuggling operation and going to a foreign country to save its people from going to Hell. I realize that the concept of risking your life or your freedom to save the souls of strangers halfway around the world makes about as much sense as risking your life trying traveling halfway around the world to promote good toe nail health to complete strangers, but some people dedicate their lives to bring the Gospel to those that have never heard. I would still maintain, however, that is a human rights violation for foreign governments to prosecute Christians for preaching in Muslim countries, particularly because of their sensitivity whenever they feel that Islam is being in any way restricted.

Ok, you kind of lost me on the second question. I live in the United States, and Muslims are in no way restricted from preaching Islam or prosthelytizing. There is a mosque just down the road, and I've yet to hear of anyone being arrested there for preaching Islam. If I were ordered to arrest an Imam merely for preaching Islam I would be bound by my oath to the US Constitution to refuse that order. If they were recruiting followers to commit terrorist acts that

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Nanheyangrouchuan 12/8/2009 1:25:35 AM

"The distinction I would make in this case is that there is a big difference between going to a foreign country to start a smuggling operation and going to a foreign country to save its people from going to Hell."

WHOA! Who decides who goes to hell and who doesn't? The One who created everything or a bunch of self-praising, walmart loving, bitter, spiteful rightwingy weirdos who typically dress bad, gorge themselves at church picnics and send their kids to be brainwashed at "Jesus camps". You know what it means to claim to know not just the will but the nature of God, boy.

Did your wacked out, brimstone throwing, nut job of a sunday preacher fill you with that nonsense? God created muslims, wiccans, atheists, gays, and pagans as well as you. Worthless white trash.

"I realize that the concept of risking your life or your freedom to save the souls of strangers halfway around the world makes about as much sense as risking your life trying traveling halfway around the world to promote good toe nail health to complete strangers, but some people dedicate their lives to bring the Gospel to those that have never heard."

You and your poisonous ilk only go there to disrupt people's lives to support your causes. You would certainly lay down judgement and punishment upon any of the previously mentioned groups and anyone else who didn't swear to support the next holy crusade. Making your kind no better than those who are already there oppressing. You only know your version of God and you have no right to coerce or force others to accept it.