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Subject: NY Trial
appleciderus    11/13/2009 9:24:28 PM
Former mayor Rudy: ?Returning some of the Guantanamo detainees to New York City for trial, specifically Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, has now brought us full circle ? we have regressed to a pre-9/11 mentality with respect to Islamic extremist terrorism,? former Mayor Rudy Giuliani said in a statement. ?Khalid Shaikh Mohammed should be treated like the war criminal he is and tried in a military court. He is not just another murderer, or even a mass murderer. He murdered as part of a declared war against us?America.? Rudy said the same on Cavuto this afternoon. I think as soon as the sheilk's usefulness expires, so should he. Quietly, painfully, and anonymously. Not another 5 year trial with casualties.
 
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Hamilcar    Still meaningless noise.   11/30/2009 8:35:45 PM
Its descended to a 'shouting I'm right' and "you are ignorant" assertion essay with the chief apologist not able to marshal one fact to support unbridled unsubstantiated galloping opinion. Where is ONE FACT here in his latest polemics. Somene other than Darth show it to me, please? He's not objective when it comes to hos own illogic. I want someone else to check me to see if I read nothing but noise here. If he has an Idea there, show it please.
--------------------------------------------- 
 
Argue the facts presented please, ditch the emotion and insults, and explain here why you don't understand politics as vengeance either in war or in the courtroom?
 
You can do that, can't you?

If you can't, then just say so, and I will help reach for the actual argument to which you should aspire.  
 
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DarthAmerica    @Hamilcar   12/1/2009 2:25:58 AM
You haven't articulated one point in support of your disagreement. You don't have any experience we know of that would qualify you either. I haven't disagreed with you or anyone else that this is best handled by the military. So what exactly are you trying to argue? Except of course that you think we should desecrate the bodies on Muslims in such an way as to hurt our own efforts. Unlike you I do have experience in that part of the world and with that culture. I know that there is a difference between some random soldier committing a war crime or an allegation from AQ propaganda and the USG actually officially committing a barbarous act that insults a core belief in Islam. SO what exactly are you trying to say specifically? Thus far you haven't said anything that would warrant anything more than a mild chuckle out of professionals who actually have to deal with this stuff.

-DA 
 
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Hamilcar    In denial.   12/1/2009 3:34:18 AM
Attack the case, not the man. Until you have something to say about the case, you just waste effort and time.
 
Now do you have any facts or logic? So far, your posts have been off topic and not useful toward convincing some of us that you have a case built of anything but emotionalism . No science, no law, no sense about KSM or the Afgham .fiasco is whbat I read..
 
You can't even get the difference strategy and tactics right and you are supposed to be a soldier.
 
Sad.
 
 
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Hugo       12/1/2009 4:05:19 AM
"Murder civilians" is never a lawful order, and the Luftwaffe were known to attack unarmed civilian refugee convoys.
 
As were allied airforces with ordinance specifically designed to kill as many civilians as possible. 
 
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theBird       12/1/2009 10:53:55 AM
What is so hard about this?  Kill a bunch of folks in the US and we will put you on trial, convict you and give you the needle.  Its what happened to Tim McVeigh, the DC sniper and ought to work fine for KSM.  Unlike a lawsuit rules of discovery are different in a criminal case; you don't need to show your hand unless you want to (and why would you).  If we go and try him for war crimes and operating as an illegal combatant it opens a whole can of worms about legality of our own actions overseas, which even if never result in a conviction of our people will be a bigger pain then its worth.
 
My only gripe is that they did not do the trial in Virginia instead as they have electrocution instead, nothing like fresh crisped terrorist in the morning!
 
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PlatypusMaximus       12/1/2009 11:16:55 AM
Unlike you I do have experience in that part of the world and with that culture. I know that there is a difference between some random soldier committing a war crime or an allegation from AQ propaganda and the USG actually officially committing a barbarous act that insults a core belief in Islam.
 
 So, we'll have professional wrestlers do it instead. I hope you don't consider a decapitation strike against the most powerful nation on Earth a 1-man random act. If so, you are doomed to fight whatever you label the proxies of our real enemy...Islam, forever.
 
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DarthAmerica       12/1/2009 1:13:02 PM

Unlike you I do have experience in that part of the world and with that culture. I know that there is a difference between some random soldier committing a war crime or an allegation from AQ propaganda and the USG actually officially committing a barbarous act that insults a core belief in Islam.

 

 So, we'll have professional wrestlers do it instead. I hope you don't consider a decapitation strike against the most powerful nation on Earth a 1-man random act. If so, you are doomed to fight whatever you label the proxies of our real enemy...Islam, forever.

Islam is not our enemy. Islam is a tool used by the enemy. Without understanding that difference we won't have success.

-DA 
 
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Hugo       12/1/2009 1:20:11 PM



Islam is not our enemy. Islam is a tool used by the enemy. Without understanding that difference we won't have success.



-DA 




Who, or what, do you believe to be the enemy?
 
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DarthAmerica       12/1/2009 1:46:24 PM

Islam is not our enemy. Islam is a tool used by the enemy. Without understanding that difference we won't have success.


-DA 


Who, or what, do you believe to be the enemy?

That's too broad of a question. The United States has many enemies. In the context of OEF or the GWOT the enemy are AQ, certain elements of the Taliban and a few other Radical Islamic Fundamentalist Non-State actors. You could also argue that elements of the Pakistani Government are also enemies as well. But these are very small subsets of the 1.5 Billion plus Muslims who practice Islam and mean you no harm. I've seen Muslims die fighting right along side of Americans. I know and work with Muslims who are very loyal Americans. 

Lets please not digress back to hating and targeting all of Islam because some muslims oppose us. There are many more on our side than against. 

-DA 
 
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sentinel28a       12/1/2009 2:17:34 PM

"Murder civilians" is never a lawful order, and the Luftwaffe were known to attack unarmed civilian refugee convoys.
 

As were allied airforces with ordinance specifically designed to kill as many civilians as possible. 




Gimme a break.  Let's see...we have Allied air forces targeting industries in cities compared to Luftwaffe Ju-87s purposely targeting what were obviously civilian refugee columns--in the hopes that causing mass casualties and chaos would delay retreating armies in France and Russia.  Maybe the Luftwaffe was more circumspect in the West, but in Russia villages were obliterated that had no military purpose; Stalingrad was churned into rubble long after the Luftwaffe had already taken out anything of military significance.
 
What kind of ordnance, Hugo?  Are you referring to the incendiaries dropped over Japan?  True, they were designed to be most effective against wooden houses.  But the fact also remains that the Japanese had scattered their industry across their cities, and because of high-level winds over Japan, the only way that B-29s could destroy those factories was to burn the cities at low-level with incendiaries.  I'm sorry that so many Japanese children were killed in those firestorms--it's why Grave of the Fireflies is required viewing in my History of Japan courses--but the Japanese started the war.  If the Japanese leadership didn't want their cities torched, they should've thought of that before marching across the Marco Polo Bridge.
 
 
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