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Subject: The Mutiny in the GOP
PPR    11/2/2009 8:07:48 AM
There's a battle going for the soul of the GOP. Moderates control the party. They will call themselves conservatives during an election year. Once elected, they abandon that conservative language and start using phrases like "compromise", "progressive", and "moderation." Instead of tax cut, defense increases, balanced budgets, and family values; they got prescription drugs, gay marriage, "war on the cheap", massive spending increases, massive deficits, and "no child left behind." All this came from GOP leaders in Washington. Those leaders hoped to expand the party by appealing to moderates and liberals. What they failed to understand was that by moving the party left, they were moving away from their center of mass. Rather than expand the party, they are now has a much smaller party and are "wandering in wilderness." Those GOP leaders should have instead promoted the conservative values of their party to moderates (as Reagan and BO did). We are now seeing a mutiny by conservatives. "http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/scozzfava_hoffman_gop/2009/11/01/280110.html" In a NY special election, a moderate and conservative candidate were both running. GOP members from across the nations funneled money to the conservative. The "moderate", for lack of funds, dropped out of the race and threw her support to the democrat. There could not be a more clear example of why the party base is so reluctant to support these "moderate" Republicans. The GOP is going to have to offer real conservative candidates if it hopes to ever again appeal to their base (which is 40% of votes currently).
 
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timon_phocas    Scozzafava No Moderate   11/2/2009 9:35:30 AM
Dede Scozzafava is no moderate. Conservative is defined as preference for smaller government, lower taxes, strong military and traditional values. If you you support those broad categories, but differ on some particulars, then you are a moderate. Scozzafava, however, doesn't qualify on any of the defining issues. She is a liberal, endorsed by ACORN. 
 
George Pataki, who is a moderate, threw his support behind Hoffman 
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       11/2/2009 11:57:19 AM
HAAAAHAAAA
 
Sounds like a bunch of trial lawyers arguing over what the meaning of "conservative" is.  Of course, to enforce "traditional" values, you have to have bigger government intruding in peoples' personal lives, which is what the conservatives claim they are against.
 
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buzzard       11/2/2009 1:16:19 PM
Nanny, you do have a knack for being completely clueless when it comes to politics, as well has having no grasp of any philosophy to which you do not adhere.
 
The GOP nominee in question didn't have a single position which could have been termed 'conservative'. Hell one would have been hard pressed to find a place where she agreed with any given GOP platform even. 
 
As for your claim about traditional values, I'd say you're simply off the mark (which is rather like you). If, say, the hot button topic of Gay Marriage to be made to be, it will involve much intrusion by government into things via lawsuits and whatnot. Just look at CA where people who just want to avoid things are getting trapped in lawsuits by gay activists. I can recall both the case of a doctor sued for not wanting to perform an artificial insemination on a lesbian couple (even though there was a plethora of other willing providers) and a church being sued for not wanting to provide their attached facilities for a gay wedding.
 
There's some people trying to use the power of the courts to beat down their opposition, and it's not the right. 
 
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FJV       11/2/2009 1:17:46 PM
The Republican party has a problem with what are called LICE, Libertarians Infiltrating Conservative Entities.
 
The Libertarians can call themselves Conservative all day long, however breaking down long standing societal institutions in order to redesign society to operate more along market principles is not and has never been a Conservative viewpoint. A real Conservative doesn't give a damn about Libertopian idealism.
 
As for the moderates, that's where the votes are. You chase away the moderates out of the Republican party, you ensure they will be severely handicapped when it comes to winning elections.
 
 
 
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buzzard       11/2/2009 1:19:27 PM
And once more let me add in my comment that this forum software is utterly abysmal. 
 
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warpig       11/2/2009 1:28:33 PM

Of course, to enforce "traditional" values, you have to have bigger government intruding in peoples' personal lives, which is what the conservatives claim they are against.


Of course and as usual, you are substantially wrong.  Your pathetic Johnny-One-Note attempted "smear" of conservatives regarding the role of government relies on the false premise that supposedly conservatives think that the best solution to everything is no government.  Since that is not the case, then there is no inherent contradiction/hypocracy/whatever-you're-trying-to-imply in conservatives occassionally advocating some government action when it is proper.  Even then, your lame-ass comments contain another error in that establishing governments that are friendly to traditional family values in today's society would actually frequently mean less government involvement intruding into people's personal lives, not more.
 
 
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buzzard       11/2/2009 1:30:15 PM
The Republican party has a problem with what are called LICE, Libertarians Infiltrating Conservative Entities.
 
The Libertarians can call themselves Conservative all day long, however breaking down long standing societal institutions in order to redesign society to operate more along market principles is not and has never been a Conservative viewpoint. A real Conservative doesn't give a damn about Libertopian idealism.
 
As for the moderates, that's where the votes are. You chase away the moderates out of the Republican party, you ensure they will be severely handicapped when it comes to winning elections.
 
 FJV you have as much idea about U.S. conservative viewpoints as my dog does about quantum physics. About the only person who might actually be considered a conservative with views anything like yours is Patrick Buchannon, and most of the conservatives here gave up on his nonsense a long time ago due to the idiotic and dated melding of protectionism, isolationism, and socialism that he espouses.
 
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FJV    Amazing   11/2/2009 2:15:59 PM
Americans had the best deal of all the people in the world and now they are pissing it all away. And for what?
 
For some utopian free market ideal that will never work. For that you will abandon/dismantle any form of responsible government, which is what gave you the best deal in the first place. And instead of getting involved and fixing what's broken, abandon that in favor of none or almost no government that has already failed when tried on a limited scale?.
 
This is like talking a drug addict out of heroin.
You know what. You have a front side seat, it's your society.


 
 
 
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buzzard       11/2/2009 2:53:11 PM
Americans had the best deal of all the people in the world and now they are pissing it all away. And for what?
 
For some utopian free market ideal that will never work. For that you will abandon/dismantle any form of responsible government, which is what gave you the best deal in the first place. And instead of getting involved and fixing what's broken, abandon that in favor of none or almost no government that has already failed when tried on a limited scale?.
 
This is like talking a drug addict out of heroin.
You know what. You have a front side seat, it's your society.
 
Once again you demonstrate your extreme ignorance of this country and its history. You haven't the first clue as to why this country was successful.  Your grasp of economics is so tenuous as to be completely laughable. I've taken you to task on numbers before and clearly demonstrated you have no idea what you are talking about and base your arguments on false premises. However you just head back in and spout off the same nonsensical rubbish. It is clear your are incapable of bothering to learn.
 
Your delusional fixations on the evil of free market limited government philosophy is getting old. Even a good joke stops being funny when told too often. 
 
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       11/2/2009 3:32:42 PM
I'm laughing at conservatives' foolish attempts to tell us who we can marry, what we can watch and what music we can listen to and all the while blathering on about "minimal government".
 
Every earthly value you people have is in ashes at your feet.
 
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