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Subject: Can't blame Bush but they'll try
eldnah    10/25/2009 6:26:48 AM
The first H1N1 cases were reported in Mexico in March of this year and shortly there after Reports of the potential for a world wide pandemic were widely broadcasted yet adequate amounts of the vaccine are still not available and people are dying of the flu. We are seeing the incompetance of the Government in providing basic public health support yet it wants to take over the entire health care system.
 
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CJH       10/25/2009 1:31:47 PM
We saw how the left beat down the reputations of any and everyone in order to excuse their own depravity.
 
Smeering Bush, Lincoln, Jefferson, etc is necessary for our left wing to be acceptable.
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       10/25/2009 4:52:24 PM
Probably because most of our flu vaccine production has been outsourced (YEAAAAAAH GLOBALIZATION). 
 
"http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&source=hp&q=outsourcing+of+US+flu+vaccines&btnG=Google+Search"

So relying on private enterprise for national security has paid off handsomely yet again.  I wonder how much of the vaccines come from China?
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       10/25/2009 4:53:09 PM
Stupid, worthless right wing beliefs in corporations, which have nothing to do with the free market.
 
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eldnah       10/25/2009 7:35:02 PM
Most of the American vaccine manufacturers were forced out of business by the Trial Lawyers Association. As no medcation is 100% perfect and when millions of doses are given, there are going to be a number of adverse reactions and when they occurr among children the liabilities is substantial. Eqivocal links to autism, which have not been scientifically proven, have been a bonanza for the Tort Lawyers. What happened subsequent to the US manufactures ceasing vaccine production was the government purchasing vaccine from foreign manufacturers and became the provider to physicians, hospitals and other organizations and in the process insulating the foreign manufactures from liability. 
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       10/26/2009 7:25:55 PM
The hospitals can be sued, as well as the importers, if the foreign made vaccines are tainted.  And dosage administration, especially for kids, is crucial.  Missteps of that sort can cripple people, enough adults go down in the US military during mandatory flu vaccination season.
 
I'd like to see some of these "frivilous" lawsuits.  I'll bet many of them involve giving too much, especially to a child, or the vaccine being tainted somehow.  

Neither reason is excusable and a big lawsuit is justifiable.  Maybe Eldnah would like to live somewhere where you have no protection or recourse against a defective product or medication, and filing lawsuit papers often results in a thug beat down when you get home.
 
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warpig       10/26/2009 10:34:26 PM

Maybe Eldnah would like to live somewhere where you have no protection or recourse against a defective product or medication, and filing lawsuit papers often results in a thug beat down when you get home.



 
Because that's the only possible result of reform of the standard tort practices of the legal system we are currently plagued with.
 
 
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smitty237       10/27/2009 4:02:49 AM
I love how Libs like Nan try to have it both ways.  On one hand he blames the inavailability of H1N1 vaccinations on globalization and international outsourcing, but can then with a seemingly straight face defends some of the outrageous lawsuits that have forced the same outsourcing he condemns. 
 Unfortunately medical research requires a lot of trial and error.  You can run all the computer simulations you want, and can even test drugs on rats and monkeys (at least for now), but the only true test of a drug is what happens when it is finally given to humans.  Unfortunately, sometimes human patients will react badly to the drug and some will die.  That is sad, but it is inevitable, and I doubt you will ever find a drug that is 100% effective for everyone and 100% safe.  The comeback to this is usually, "How would you feel if it was your child, mother/father, brother/sister, wife/husband, etc.?"  Well, I would feel awful and would want changes to make sure it doesn't happen to anyone else, but I also understand that human beings are fragile and that nobody gets out of life alive.  Pharmaceutical companies should be held responsible for the products they produce, but court judgements in the hundreds of millions of dollars are an abuse of the system and prevent the development of life saving vaccines and medications. 
 
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sentinel28a       10/27/2009 4:25:17 AM
Is Nan aware that the H1N1 vaccine is produced by a corporation?
 
Yeah, let's get rid of all the corporations and replace them with...I dunno, the government?  Wouldn't that make us pretty much the American version of the People's Republic of China, aka Nan's Antichrist?
 
I may be a stupid rightwinger for trusting corporations, but I trust them a hell of a lot more than government.  Corporations at least have to watch the free market.
 
 
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eldnah       10/27/2009 8:41:15 AM
Only in cloud-cuckoo land are there perfect solutions. With the best of intentions and care among three hundred millions people, not machines, there are going to be idiosyncratic reactions to just about anything as complex as a vaccine. The tort lawyers though, have taken it way beyond that. Like the spina bifida scam John Edwards worked to blame that specific congential anomaly on MDs and hospitals, the tort lawyers used autism to beat up on the vaccine manufacturesrs and lottery minded jurors awarded millions with out any scientific backing for a causitive relation. The U S vaccine manufactures just folded there operations and made other things. The foreign manufacturers are not sued because of a legal gimmick. They refuse to sell in the U S but the US government buys the vaccine overseas and assumes liability and then refuses to allow itself to be sued.  A shield law called the National Childhood Vaccination Injury
 
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eldnah       10/27/2009 9:00:40 AM
Sorry for the break. Continuing the above. National Childhood Vaccination Injury Compensation Program was passed in 1986 and established a Special Master and with fixed awards but the profit margin was so small on the vaccinies and it was the SM accepted without scientific backing the DPT in particular did "contribute in some way to autism" that most U S  companies did not get back in the business. More recently the SM has changed "his" mind and autism is no longer considered to be related to vaccinations. In July 2009 under a 2006 law on public health emergencies Sec Sebelius signed an order protecting H1N1 manufacturers from liability. Of course many manufacturers in other countries are seeing to their own needs first.
 
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