Mark Steyn: Limbaugh bad, Mao good

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Panther 10/20/2009 3:34:05 PM

The more i think about it with each passing day, the less annoyingly irritated i am and the more frightened i am becoming too have such a government official telling graduating students that their favorite philosopher is Mao and he should be imitated! Bullsh!t!!!!!!

This man Mao who led and brutally murdered millions of his own countrymen in the search of some commie utopia vs. Rush L. a commentator on the radio with his opinion.

It is a sign of the times that Anita Dunn has not been tarred, feathered and ran out of town yet for such a horrendously callous and yet such a blatantly indoctrinating comment to make too impressionable students with their careers still ahead of them! Will even one of them take her to heart and be the next US Mao, the murder of millions of Americans?

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Panther 10/20/2009 3:47:55 PM

This man Mao who led and brutally murdered millions of his own countrymen in the search of some commie utopia vs. Rush L. a commentator on the radio with his opinion.

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Panther 10/20/2009 3:49:29 PM

D@mn it! I hate it when this happens.

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usajoe1 sentinel 10/20/2009 5:22:27 PM

Lets look at Wilson. This men had more people arrested and put to jail in a couple of years, than Mussolini had in all of the 1920's. In his last couple of years he violated more civil liberties than Mussolini in his first decade. He had a propaganda ministry, and went after the press with his goons. He was convinced that the state could create a better society, and hated most of the founding fathers, and the checks and balances of the constitution. This was also a men who loved power and said that by giving blacks the right to vote was "the foundation of every evil in this country" and "true leader uses the masses like tools." You can also look at the CPI, WBI, EA, APL, and Wilsons sedition act, to see what this men was really about. If that is not enough, why don't you pick up one of Wilsons favorite books, "The promise of American life" where Herbert Croly talks about the need for mobilizing society like an army, contempt for parliamentary democracy, and a need for a non-Marxist Socialism. This is the book where after reading it, Wilson said that he wished he was better able to get Croly's advice to his fellow countrymen.Wilson was as close to a socialist dictator as this country has had, until 2008.

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Mikko Totally off-topic.. 10/21/2009 8:14:57 AM

Sorry for off-topicing, there's this one question (well, a bunch of them but revolving around the same theme) I always wanted to ask you guys and figured this thread is as good as any political thread for it. Here it goes:

I am puzzled with the current terminology and divisions considering US conservatives and right-wingers. In my perspective, the classical stereotype of a right-wing conservative is this pro-war protectionist pro-gun xenophobe. Gays, jews, blacks, asians, roman catholics, left-wingers etc. are on the dislike-list of this stereotypical ultra -right wing white male. Is this stereotype a myth or does it belong in the past?

Yet what I find in this forum and elsewhere is a totally different breed of conservative right-wingers. Goodbye to dislike towards all abovementioned "minorities"; enter pro-Jew, pro-black, pro-asian attitudes. This stereotype I know not to be a myth since I talk with this kind of people here and respect fully their perspectives, whether I agree with them or not. Hell, as I understand, jews are most welcome in this category and crucial members of it, as are other minorities also. Attitudes that are sometimes quite close to sionism fits very poorly with the first stereotype.

Yet the anti-communist, pro-force, pro-gun and 'global warming is BS' -attitudes are there but the xenophobic features are not.

Now what's up with that? I'm totally guilty of letting myself be manipulated by Hollywood and the media - this strange division is not something I've experienced first hand. What happened to the cowboy-type with bullhorns in the beltbuckle and tons of racial prejudices under the hat? I know there are tons of terminology to describe this but I'd like to look beyond the buzzwords.

I know this pondering might seem strange to you but this is a phenomenon other non-Americans probably recognize too.

Mikko

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YelliChink 10/21/2009 10:45:41 AM

Mikko

Ha-HA!! You just exposed what global/international MFM have put into your brain through embedded propaganda.

First you must understand that "conservatives" and "liberals" in the US is different from what Europeans have over there. The political ideology in the US is constantly in changing, and neither faction is consisted of single element, but more like a conglomerate of special interest groups plus ideological/religious factions.

In Europe, it's more like a rainbow, which political ideology is reflected by the position of seat in the parliament. That, unfortunately, is a common myth in European style politics which shows how deeply entrenched the idea that there can be only left and right.

In reality and practice, political spectrum is rather like a sphere (this picture is rather different from libertarians believe, let's call it YC theory of political domain). On the north pole you have total anarchy, and on the other hand, you have totalitarian. Freedom is somewhere in the middle, and, as long as the principle of freedom is held, it doesn't matter you go left or right.

On issues:

Anti-gay: the most anti-gay group in the US is actually anyone but liberals, since they hijacked the right to define homophobia. Now you know why blacks and Hispanios voted against gay-marriage in California last year. They are essentially immune to homosexual propaganda thanks to racial pimps.

Pro-gun: there is nothing wrong with this. Gun right is part of the human right for self-defense and self-preservation, and it the most trampled right in the world. The Founding Fathers of the US got it right from the beginning, period.

Pro-War: Michael Savage is against Iraqi War, and he is considered a super right-winger. Ron Paul also objected the war for different reasons. Hilary Clinton and a lot left-wing Democrats voted for it, but you don't hear MFM talk too much about that.

Protectionist: Global free trade is kaput. The Unions don't like it, and a lot right-wing patriots don't like it. The reason it is kaput is because we trade with countries which aren't not free, and a lot of countries didn't strike down trade barrier against US goods and services.

Roman Catholics are usually considered right-wing here. Thanks to anti-Christian campaign by leftists.

Xenophobe: one third of inmates in US penitentiary system are illegal aliens, and the estimated illegal alien in the US is many times of the population of Finland. Illegal alien is causing tremendous strain on US welfare system, driving down wages and funding for organized crime. What do you think about it if 10 million Russians entered your country illegally and now openly demand for amnesty?

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warpig 10/21/2009 10:51:10 AM

Yet the anti-communist, pro-force, pro-gun and 'global warming is BS' -attitudes are there but the xenophobic features are not.

That stereotype is both a myth and also belongs in the past.

Of course there are plenty of racist whites, blacks, asians, etc. in America and around the world. Some of them lean toward conservativism, some lean toward liberalism. The thing is, you have to be ignorant to be racist, and I'd suggest most people posting here are not ignorant. Opinionated, yes, but not ignorant.

Generally speaking, American conservatism has at its core the belief in individual responsibility for your own welfare regardless of whether that means you succeed in life or fail in life, thus creating an environment of the greatest individual liberty with the least government "assistance"/interference. An Americanist should consider all persons to be equal and treat them that way, both during interpersonal interaction and also through government action. Americanists aren't against equal rights for all, or against being paid the same for doing the same job; instead, they are against any outside coercion (including, even particularly, from any government agency) trying to force such equality upon anyone. However, Americanists also tend to believe that whatever laws do exist ought to be enforced (or else repealed), and it's this desire for everyone to be law-abiding that is substantially the reason for Americanist opposition to illegal immigration (perhaps a similar subject to racism or at least xenophobia), as I think most Americanists understand that immigration in general is a source of hard-working new citizens who will contribute to society, which benefits everyone.

Another aspect is that Americanists are more likely than liberals to be fundamentalist Christians, and regardless of what stereotypes some might have on this subject, the fact is that this group is much more accepting of all people as being equal in God's sight and therefore should be treated equally by God's children. Once again, just like among blacks, liberals, etc., there can be racists among people who claim to be (and maybe even mean it) fundamentalist Christians, but from everything I've been able to tell from being a Christian for a couple decades now, that's just not typical. This also explains much of the outright friendliness by most Americanists toward Jews, as well.

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Mikko Much appreciated 10/21/2009 2:44:41 PM

Thanks for swift answers.

It's good that you listed down direct views on the things I brought up. I understand the idea of Americanism as warpig explained it. It's quite close to my own values, though I tend to emphasize governments role as an enabler. My view on government intervention is that talent, hard work and ambition should be supported and promoted to the max. Everyone should be free to fall down to the gutters but someone should be there when there's a will to get up and start working.

What if it isn't all the fault of "leftist media" that such negative stereotypes get associated with the American political right? I mean, some right-wingers do a pretty good job at it themselves. When I started coming to this page there were constantly some conservative t-shirts advertised on the banners here, ones that had the most idiotic slogans and "jokes" written on them. I do remember the company name but don't bother repeating it. What was that about!? It was my first direct contact with ordinary Americans who discuss warfare and politics and the first visual impression was advertisements that had t-shirts showing mushroom clouds over Mecca.

And that was just an example. Liberal intellectuals get through in the media because of their apparent dominance in the entertainment industry. Redneck-ultra-right-wingers get through in the media because they have good entertainment value for the rest of the world: "Look at our loons!" What we never learn about back here northeast from you are the views of peaceful and civilized right-wingers. And as I said, it's not just the media, it's because the nutjobs make so much noise about themselves.

But yes, both your posts were highly informative. Btw, I sure would like to get into a gun policy argument with you guys but this isn't the thread :)

Mikko

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Panther 10/21/2009 5:38:35 PM

Hello Mikko,

Conservatives are not pro-war but pro-national defense.

Pro-gun does not necessarily mean one has too have impeccable conservative credentials, i mean there are plenty of liberals who can be just as much of a gun nut as what a conservative can. Hollywood actor Ben Affleck(sp.?) comes too mind.

Xenophobia or racist attitudes does not belong too any particular political group as far as i am concerned, but is largely based on human ignorance.

Gays, Jews, Blacks, Asians, Roman Catholics, left-wingers and ect... I say God bless them and wish them all the luck in their lives because my life is already hellish enough for me to be casting stones at anyone in particular; That is... I have my life and they have theirs, they are after still my countrymen

I imagine the cause of this false perception of one another might be the largely liberal control of the media with the effect of disconnecting itself with the other half of the country Whether it is intentional or not is speculation on my part, but whatever has happened has harmed the country quite a bit i believe? Of course that view is always subject too change if i find that i am wrong.

Heh - not too worry, many of us are often mugged by reality itself more often then we care too admit..

Nice talking with you Mikko

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sentinel28a 10/21/2009 8:09:10 PM

Part of this too is the fact that the face most foreigners see of the US is the one projected by Hollywood. In the 1950s, Hollywood made movies that would be considered ludicrously far-right today (The Manchurian Candidate being one example), but at the time were more or less mainstream. The gun-totin' cowboy was horribly romanticized, because you can't show how boring and dangerous being a cowboy really was. (And given the racial attitudes of the time, you also couldn't show that about 10% of cowboys were black, if not more. With the notable exception of the Chinese, the American West was less racist than the North during the Civil War and Reconstruction.)

If you watch a Hollywood movie, what impression would you carry away from it? Probably that car chases are common, gun violence is rampant, and policemen are authorized to gun down anything in their way. You'd probably also get the idea that all Republicans are hopelessly racist and corrupt, that all war is bad (unless it's WWII, in which case it's good), that Catholics haven't progressed past the Inquisition, and that the little guy--who coincidentally always has the same political views as the Democrat Party--is always right. Oh, and there's no such thing as Muslim terrorists. Neo-Nazis are okay, right-wing nutbars are great, but no Muslims.

There's exceptions to every rule, of course, but when I talk to my overseas friends, this is what I hear. Foreign exchange students that I've talked to or taught are always amazed how peaceful the US really is, having been raised to think that we're all gun-toting lunatics looking for the next war.

I'm reminded of a scene in the Japanese anime Azumanga Daioh, where one of the characters plans on studying in the US after high school. Her friends are desperately worried she'll be kidnapped or shot within hours of setting foot in the US. They also think American women all have huge boobs too, but that's another subject.

Anyhow, if you're thinking we're like the way Hollywood portrays us, don't. Hollywood is dominated by far left-wingers, but no matter what their political affiliation, action movies sell. Showing suburban Chicago as being safe and comfy is boring. Showing Chicago PD and gang bangers duking it out in suburbia is fun!

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