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Subject: Where are we going
norden    10/16/2009 10:06:01 PM
With the current interest rates, dollar devaluation, health care spending and the fact that oil might not be only traded in dollars could this be the death throes of America. Could we see rampant inflation ala Carter years? If foreign governments stop keeping dollars in reserve and dump our currency onto the market. Is it devastating or just a re-balance. I think it would be good if "Made in America" was returned to its former iconic status but at what cost... The Greenies have made it almost impossible to manufacture in this country not to mention upgrading coal facilities or nuclear power. Anyone here contemplating this scenario or want to give feedback. From my armchair it seems pretty gloomy
 
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sentinel28a       10/18/2009 6:13:11 AM

"The Greenies have made it almost impossible to manufacture in this country not to mention upgrading coal facilities or nuclear power."

 

You haven't experienced just how bad pollution can get, as most people who bash environmental laws and their enforcement haven't.  You haven't been sick every week with colds and trots just because of the air and the water you bathe in nor have you had real residue come off of the food you wash before cooking.

 

The NIMBY types are typically more to blame than tree huggers as the NIMBYs have more economic clout.  There is plenty of good coal technology that utilities try not to use.  Nuclear requires alot of water using current technology (what ever happened to pebble bed research?) and many areas like Texas, the western regions of the Great Plains and the SW are drying up fast.



Forest fires fueled by underbrush that the greenies refuse to let anyone clean out aren't all that awesome either, Nan.  Ever been nearly blown off your feet by hurricane-force winds, nearly blinded by smoke, and in the doctor's office three times a week due to asthma complications, due to a forest fire that's well over a hundred miles off? 
 
I have.
 
Responsible environmental laws, like the ones enacted after Lake Erie caught fire, absolutely.  Environmental laws enacted by people who think humans are a blight to Mother Gaia and we were so much more healthy when we lived in caves and ate raw berries, not so much.
 
I find it fascinating that one of the first conservationists in the US was a logger. 
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       10/18/2009 1:57:16 PM




"The Greenies have made it almost impossible to manufacture in this country not to mention upgrading coal facilities or nuclear power."



 



You haven't experienced just how bad pollution can get, as most people who bash environmental laws and their enforcement haven't.  You haven't been sick every week with colds and trots just because of the air and the water you bathe in nor have you had real residue come off of the food you wash before cooking.



 



The NIMBY types are typically more to blame than tree huggers as the NIMBYs have more economic clout.  There is plenty of good coal technology that utilities try not to use.  Nuclear requires alot of water using current technology (what ever happened to pebble bed research?) and many areas like Texas, the western regions of the Great Plains and the SW are drying up fast.









Forest fires fueled by underbrush that the greenies refuse to let anyone clean out aren't all that awesome either, Nan.  Ever been nearly blown off your feet by hurricane-force winds, nearly blinded by smoke, and in the doctor's office three times a week due to asthma complications, due to a forest fire that's well over a hundred miles off? 

 

I have.

 

Responsible environmental laws, like the ones enacted after Lake Erie caught fire, absolutely.  Environmental laws enacted by people who think humans are a blight to Mother Gaia and we were so much more healthy when we lived in caves and ate raw berries, not so much.

 

I find it fascinating that one of the first conservationists in the US was a logger. 


Nitpicking Sentinel and I agree.  They probably see some correlation between controlled burns and the logging industry.
 
But the post Cuyahoga River fire laws, the CWA, CAA,  and other laws have been seriously gutted with exceptions made for certain industries in the name of "competitiveness".  On quality, the US can compete, but environmental regulations do drive up the cost, there is no way around that.  But as China and India start to clamp down on emissions (at least with respect to foreign companies), imported goods will cost more. 
 
Western consumers, in fact all consumers, need to stop thinking that low low prices are a constitutional or God-given right.  We are paying a high cost for low low prices in the form of our health and well being.  Think about that when you have to toss back a fish with bumps on its body.
 
 
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sentinel28a       10/19/2009 2:06:32 AM
Considering that most of the damage being done to the world's ecosystem is being done by China and other developing countries, I'm thinking they should be the ones who are getting the stink-eye over emissions.
 
Funny you should mention fish.  Montana had a number of streams horribly contaminated by heavy metals from the mining of the late 19th/early 20th centuries.  20 years ago, if you waded in those streams, you were asking for trouble, and you didn't worry about fish with bumps because the fish were all dead.  Today--you can land the most beautiful, succulent rainbow trout in those same streams.  The EPA and Superfund really did it right.
 
And we did it all without cap-and-tax.
 
 
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