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Subject: Still no Russian Cooperation despite US concession
YelliChink    10/13/2009 1:17:24 PM
www.nytimes.com/2009/10/14/world/europe/14diplo.html NYT: Russia Resists U.S. Position on Sanctions for Iran ?At the current stage, all forces should be thrown at supporting the negotiating process,? he said. ?Threats, sanctions, and threats of pressure in the current situation, we are convinced, would be counterproductive.? Lavrov, Russian Foreign minister. www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/10/13/world/international-us-russia-clinton.html NYT: Clinton Fails to Win Russia Pledge on Iran Sanctions [quote] A senior U.S. official had said before the talks that Clinton wanted to know "what specific forms of pressure Russia would be prepared for to join us" if Iran did not keep promises to the international community not to pursue nuclear weapons. [unquote]
 
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Ezekiel       10/13/2009 6:02:46 PM
one can always rely on the russians to act like russians, and ruthlessly cater to is immediate self interest. Russia cannot be relied on to help deal responsibly with a fringe islamist regime that seeks the nuke, it their is money and influence in it for them and can still play spoiler to US power.
 
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sentinel28a       10/14/2009 3:59:37 PM
From a purely economic POV and in acting in Putin's best interests, I can see why the Russians are doing what they're doing.  They need the money.  Russia's economy has always been rickety, and it's getting worse with the recession.  If that means you sell nuclear technology and S-300s to Iran, you do that.  The Russians don't give a rat's can about Israel, so if Israel and Iran decide to nuke each other, well, that's not Russia's problem.
 
Maybe it's a win-win for Russia.  Iran gets the nukes, Russia gets the cash; since the Iranians will be needing new fighters and SAMs to defend their newly-won nukes, that just makes them better customers.  If the Iranians get their ass beat by Israel, then Russia can sell them replacements.  If Teheran gets turned into glass, well...the resulting power vacuum might allow Putin to finally be the Russian ruler who gets that warm-water port.
 
I'm really not seeing a downside to this, if I'm Russia.  Of course, Stalin didn't see much downside to signing a nonaggression treaty with a genocidal nut either.
 
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YelliChink       10/14/2009 4:13:49 PM

I'm really not seeing a downside to this, if I'm Russia.  Of course, Stalin didn't see much downside to signing a nonaggression treaty with a genocidal nut either.


Probably because Stalin, being a genocidal nut himself, projected his own image onto Hitler and had that illusion that Hitler is just like him. Yes, indeed, in many respect, but he miscalculated about that Hitler is simply more audacious and daring than he ever was.
 
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buzzard       10/14/2009 5:07:29 PM

If that was true we would be at war.




-DA 


Is that so?
 
h--p://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20091005_two_leaks_and_deepening_iran_crisis
 
Sounds to me like the Russians are helping.  We mobilizing yet?
 
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DarthAmerica       10/14/2009 5:46:13 PM




If that was true we would be at war.










-DA 






Is that so?

 

h--p://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20091005_two_leaks_and_deepening_iran_crisis


 

Sounds to me like the Russians are helping.  We mobilizing yet?


There is no need to mobilize as in the past. The systems necessary for the strike are in place or within "days" to weeks of being there. Everything is transpiring as has been posted. We haven't reached critical mass yet.

-DA 
 
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PlatypusMaximus       10/14/2009 8:55:35 PM
We can't threaten nuclear war with Russia and make them believe it, so the options left are help them restart the Soviet Union, or nothing.
 
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sentinel28a       10/15/2009 3:05:10 AM
If the Stratfor report is correct, Netanyahu also might've warned Medvedev to get his scientists out of the way, so Israel can't be accused of killing Russian citizens.  It's not a case of threatening nuclear war with Russia, but merely warning them that the time for talk over Iran is rapidly nearing an end, and unless Russian families want to start getting their scientist loved ones home in boxes, Russia might be well disposed towards bringing them home--or joining in a sanctions scheme, despite the economic damage it might cause.
 
Whatever else I think Putin is guilty of, I'm fairly certain he doesn't want nuclear war, or any war with a nation he can't bully or push around.  He won't go to war over Iran.  He has very little to gain and a lot to lose.
 
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Le Zookeeper    My view   10/15/2009 3:24:19 AM
I doubt there will be an overt attack on Iran, but assasinations/kidnapping of Iranian nuclear scientists, other sabotages arepossible, also Netanyahu gave Russia a list of Russian scientist working on the deliverable bomb, they maybe taken out.
 
If there is a major world economic collapse US maybe pressured to attack also due to concerns of the Anti-US dollar conspiracy to stop USA from being currency for OPEC. A pro US Iran, Iraq and Saudi in US camp could save the dollar, and that is if Obama is not around.
 
All in all if had to put money on it, Iran will get the bomb barring a very major worlwide economic collapse  leading upto war. As we speak an Iraq type war is impossible as China will stop buying US bonds and our Mastercard is over the limit. This painfully exposes US achilles heel of depending on foreign financing for extended wars. Put it simply, you want a war with Iran - ask China and Japan if they do not mind. US has lost a considerable amount of soverignity.
 
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buzzard       10/15/2009 8:53:19 AM
I admit I have heard the news stories about the new deep penetrators being shipped out there. I'm still not sure enough of the top command authority being willing to do what is necessary.
 
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Jeff_F_F       10/15/2009 2:07:08 PM

When my ex-wife would get an idea in her head I didn't like, I'd just stall. She was rather flaky and kept fluctuating all over the place in her plans. Eventually she'd come up with a plan that I like better and I'd agree to it.

The Russians have no reason to compromise, they just have to wait.

 
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