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Subject: Are Secular Fundamentalists (including liberals) Enemies of God?
CJH    10/10/2009 3:30:37 PM
"Secular... fundamentalism is the belief system which buttresses the creed of political and economic liberalism just as the Biblically-based beliefs of Judaism and Christianity buttress the creed of political and economic conservatism." Enemy of God - Someone who has willfully rejected the God of the Bible, is actively opposed to obedience to the will of the God of the Bible and actively strives to suppress God's influence over the public life of their society.
 
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sentinel28a       10/13/2009 2:45:32 PM
Most Christians don't say things like that.  I've never seen anyone turned away from my church (I'm Catholic, BTW).  There's a specific disclaimer in our missal:  "Due to the divisions in Christianity, we unfortunately cannot allow our non-Catholic brothers and sisters to receive Communion.  However, we invite them to participate in all other elements of our celebration."  I've been to Mass in a Lutheran church and felt very welcome; same at a Mormon wedding and baptism.  I think that's probably true of most Christian religions.  It's more than likely true in a Jewish synagogue and quite a few mosques, as well.  (I've never been to a mosque, so I can't say.  The closest I got to one was Louis Farrakhan's place, and understandably I didn't test the waters there.)  Hell, I've got tree-worshipping pagan friends that have gone to church with me.
 
It's people that are the problem.  You can't convince me that Jesus intended the Inquisition to take place, or the terrible religious wars in Europe.  Or for that matter, the Crusades, which both Christians and Muslims made worse despite the efforts of their leaders.  Religion is too often used as a means to achieve secular power.  The Catholic Church made that mistake on several occasions; Osama bin Laden does it now. 
 
To call secular fundamentalists (i.e. militant atheists, I suppose) "enemies of God" is to presume any of us know what God is thinking.  That's impossible.  I'm quite convinced God exists, but I have no idea what He is thinking.  When I read about the rise of Hitler and the pure accidents that put him in power, I have to ask myself, "Why didn't God stop this?"  I don't know.  I may never know.  But I certainly don't presume to know who God considers an enemy and who He doesn't. 
 
I've got one message for secular fundies: don't cram your beliefs down my throat, and I won't do the same to you.  If you're right, I've lost nothing for believing in a God that doesn't exist.  If I'm right, God is merciful.  Hopefully, we both win.
 
BTW, Zoo, the Founding Fathers were very religious.  Even Deists like Franklin and Jefferson frequently made references to Providence; in Franklin's case, he said God most certainly exists, even if Franklin didn't believe Jesus was the Son of God.  (Since Franklin was pretty old at the time, he added that he planned to find out the whole truth rather soon, and that he looked forward to his education.)  America was never intended to be a strictly secular republic, it was just never intended to have a state-sponsored religion.  The Founders believed that religion was none of the federal government's business, and they were right.
 
 
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