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Subject: Are Secular Fundamentalists (including liberals) Enemies of God?
CJH    10/10/2009 3:30:37 PM
"Secular... fundamentalism is the belief system which buttresses the creed of political and economic liberalism just as the Biblically-based beliefs of Judaism and Christianity buttress the creed of political and economic conservatism." Enemy of God - Someone who has willfully rejected the God of the Bible, is actively opposed to obedience to the will of the God of the Bible and actively strives to suppress God's influence over the public life of their society.
 
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Le Zookeeper    Yelli neither   10/10/2009 11:19:44 PM
As religiousdebates are usually pointless even if somebody wins- there is no proof on this physical system. Never will be. And it doesn't really matter Ocam's razor or something like that. Anyways I am not an atheist. But my beliefs would be more along eastern spirituality with a strong disbelief(not a dislike) of Judeo Christian Islamic religions which have largely spread by coercion and manipulation except for Jewry of course which was avictim more than anything else. Have you read Tibetan book of the dead or Lao Tze, I heard they are inspirational.
 
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GLaw       10/10/2009 11:52:31 PM

"Secular... fundamentalism is the belief system which buttresses the creed of political and economic liberalism just as the Biblically-based beliefs of Judaism and Christianity buttress the creed of political and economic conservatism."

Enemy of God - Someone who has willfully rejected the God of the Bible, is actively opposed to obedience to the will of the God of the Bible and actively strives to suppress God's influence over the public life of their society.

For some reason I can not comprehend what you are saying here.
 
I am entirely non religious. 
 
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YelliChink       10/10/2009 11:55:14 PM

As religiousdebates are usually pointless even if somebody wins- there is no proof on this physical system. Never will be. And it doesn't really matter Ocam's razor or something like that. Anyways I am not an atheist. But my beliefs would be more along eastern spirituality with a strong disbelief(not a dislike) of Judeo Christian Islamic religions which have largely spread by coercion and manipulation except for Jewry of course which was avictim more than anything else. Have you read Tibetan book of the dead or Lao Tze, I heard they are inspirational.

I couldn't care less about your religion.
 
However, Lao Tze is not a religious leader. His book is about politics, which is more akin to modern Libertarian, not belief system. Taoism is actually Chinese form of pagan belief, but that's another story.
 
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Aussiegunneragain       10/11/2009 7:43:19 AM





Yup, thanks for characterising our position so succinctly. I'll put it another way ... feel free to follow your beliefs about being a subject to an imaginary supernatural being if you like, but kindly desist from shoving it down other people's throat.






Yeah, like those pesky Atheists always try to spread their message. To be honest, I'm sick and tired of hearing their zealous frenzy about a mechanical universe and how everything starts from a singularity.

I haven't come across too many Atheists like that in the West ( I know it has been and still is to an extent different in Communist countries). The Athiests and Agnostics that I've met generally share the sentiment that I related in my previous post, live and let live. Religious people other than Christians and Muslims seem to get that notion as well, its only some people from those two faiths that seem to be obsessed with imposing their views on everybody else.
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       10/11/2009 11:19:00 AM

Thus, I think you're wrong about the situation. It's not Atheists against Believers. Modern Socialism (which includes modern liberalism) are taught to hate everything Western and Jewish, including and especially the religion, and to accept whatever non-Western in the face value, even when the outsider's value is in total contradictory to theirs (e.g. Feminism vs Sharia law).





16
I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 17For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[c] just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."[d]

God's Wrath Against Mankind

 18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

 21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

 


Sounds like many holier than thou congregations, big box praise centers and humiliated televangelists as well as 2000 years of christians claiming to know the will of God and committing mass murder based on those beliefs.
 
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YelliChink       10/11/2009 1:22:16 PM

I haven't come across too many Atheists like that in the West ( I know it has been and still is to an extent different in Communist countries). The Athiests and Agnostics that I've met generally share the sentiment that I related in my previous post, live and let live. Religious people other than Christians and Muslims seem to get that notion as well, its only some people from those two faiths that seem to be obsessed with imposing their views on everybody else.

The Christians and Hindus that I've met generally share the sentiment that I related in my previous post, live and let live. Nonreligious people other than Atheists seem to get the notion as well, it's only some people from Atheism that seem to be obsessed with imposing their views on everybody else.
 
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CJH       10/11/2009 3:26:36 PM



"Secular... fundamentalism is the belief system which buttresses the creed of political and economic liberalism just as the Biblically-based beliefs of Judaism and Christianity buttress the creed of political and economic conservatism."



Enemy of God - Someone who has willfully rejected the God of the Bible, is actively opposed to obedience to the will of the God of the Bible and actively strives to suppress God's influence over the public life of their society.



Yup, thanks for characterising our position so succinctly. I'll put it another way ... feel free to follow your beliefs about being a subject to an imaginary supernatural being if you like, but kindly desist from shoving it down other people's throat.


Your another way is almost certainly intended towards people but we would immediately see that its ultimate intended target is that "imaginary supernatural being".
We know that a denial of the existence of the true and living God is really an evasion.
 
After all. if one wishes to rebel against the demands for obedience on the part of his Creator, it is easier to believe God out of existence than to acknowledge God's authority and then still insist on ignoring it anyway.
 
This is a very ancient pattern. People used to make inanimate object figures and then bow down to them for much the purpose.
 
It's just a case of wishful thinking become philosophy.
 
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CJH       10/11/2009 3:31:32 PM



"Secular... fundamentalism is the belief system which buttresses the creed of political and economic liberalism just as the Biblically-based beliefs of Judaism and Christianity buttress the creed of political and economic conservatism."




Enemy of God - Someone who has willfully rejected the God of the Bible, is actively opposed to obedience to the will of the God of the Bible and actively strives to suppress God's influence over the public life of their society.



For some reason I can not comprehend what you are saying here.

 

I am entirely non religious. 


Liberal leaders in education, the media and politics enemies of God? That is, do they knowingly defy God's authority?
 
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CJH       10/11/2009 3:39:12 PM




Thus, I think you're wrong about the situation. It's not Atheists against Believers. Modern Socialism (which includes modern liberalism) are taught to hate everything Western and Jewish, including and especially the religion, and to accept whatever non-Western in the face value, even when the outsider's value is in total contradictory to theirs (e.g. Feminism vs Sharia law).













16
I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 17For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[c] just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."[d]



God's Wrath Against Mankind



 18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.



 21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.



 





Sounds like many holier than thou congregations, big box praise centers and humiliated televangelists as well as 2000 years of christians claiming to know the will of God and committing mass murder based on those beliefs.
Who would you say this applies to more then - Christians or Communists?
Do Communists claim to know what is best for everyone?
 
What Christian mass murder do mean mean? How would that compare to the 100+ million innocent people murdered by Communists in the twentieth century?

 
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Le Zookeeper    CJH & Yelli   10/11/2009 4:08:23 PM
Strictly speaking Buddhism killed the fewest, so must we all accept buddha? secularism killed nobody.
 
And Yelli which atheist has pushed his views on you? I have been solicited primarily by Christians, secondarily by Hindus and some Moslems, =never an agnostic or atheist.
 
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