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Subject: Poland and Czech kicked in the nuts by the US
YelliChink    9/17/2009 10:33:06 AM
edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/17/missile.defense.shield/index.html [quote] But Biden explained the logic of doing so, saying Iran -- a key concern for the United States -- was not a threat. "I think we are fully capable and secure dealing with any present or future potential Iranian threat," Biden said in Baghdad, where he is on a brief trip. ... "This is catastrophic for Poland," said the spokeswoman, who declined to be named in line with ministry policy. advertisement Poland and the Czech Republic had based much of their future security policy on getting the missile defenses from the United States. The countries share deep concerns of a future military threat from the east -- namely, Russia -- and may look for other defense assurances from their NATO allies. [unquote]
 
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FJV       9/24/2009 4:52:56 PM
If you guys knew what you are talking about you'ld know this fact.
 
 
 
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usajoe1       9/24/2009 5:00:17 PM
If you guys knew what you are talking about you'ld know this fact.
 
If you had common sense, you would know the facts!
 
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Mikko       9/24/2009 6:32:40 PM

 
Just for the record

The president of Russia is Medvedev, Putin is not Russia's president anymore.


LOL!!!

Medvedev has just as much power in Russia as Ahmadinejad has in Iran. The real power belongs to those thugs, killers, and criminals, Putin and the Mullahs in Iran.


No matter how right you actually might be describing Putin and the Mullahs, that's an attitude that maximizes own casualties and minimizes national gain. Attributing black&white traits to people blinds one's eyes from seeing easy victories. Considering someone evil is a close cousin to underestimating your enemy.  When you think of them as equals you know how to please them as well as how to hurt them.
 
Mikko
 
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tigertony    FJV   9/24/2009 7:04:18 PM

If you guys knew what you are talking about you'ld know this fact.

 

 


  Hey what fact was i wrong about?
 
  The Kremlin wants war in Iran?
 
 

Russian Gas to Europe, Part Deux.

(Download the PDF version of t...

The recurring crisis in the shipment of Russian gas to the European continent is now moving from an annual to a monthly event. Much like a television soap opera, the theme remains the same; each crisis is followed by a resolution of all pricing and payment disagreements only to be followed by another conflict. The Russians want to be paid, the Ukrainians want some combination of higher transit fees and lower prices, and the Europeans just want assurances that the gas will be delivered. In an EPRINC assessment published in March 2009, we concluded that Gazprom, as a price-taker, had incurred substantial losses from the low oil price environment and recurring gas disputes with Ukraine, thereby, highlighting that dependence goes both ways ? Russia needs the European market as much as the latter needs Russian gas.
Furthermore, we concluded that Ukraine could lose considerable economic leverage if Russia built either the Nord Stream or South Stream pipelines. While Russia is determined to charge ahead with building both pipelines, it is suffering from declining revenues from lower sales into Europe. Unless the Ukrainian transit issue is resolved, we are likely to see another cycle of payment disputes.

All three sides have a lot to gain through a long term resolution of the transit conflict, so why is it so difficult to obtain a stable agreement? In many respects the ongoing dispute over Russian gas deliveries represents a three party confrontation in which each party brings a unique, but constantly changing risk profile, and both the Russians and Europeans are seeking strategies for the other party to do more to get the Ukrainians to cooperate. However, a broad range of interests in Ukraine are facing severe economic and political pressures, and all of these stakeholders are well aware that Ukraine is the transit point for over 80 percent of Russian access to the European market. Kyiv remains in a position to extract higher fees or lower gas prices (economic rents) by diverting transit gas to domestic uses. While new pipelines are likely to diminish the importance of the Ukrainian transportation corridor, this traditional transit route will remain important when European gas demand recovers.

Although the Russians are actively pursuing alternative delivery routes to their European customers, for the time being, they are stuck with the Ukrainian transit corridor. The Russians can deny the gas to the Ukrainians, but all the parties involved also know that such cutoffs will result in reduced or no gas flow to Europe and at the same time further damage Russia?s reputation as a reliable supplier. Furthermore, conditions in the world gas market may now pose additional risks to the Russians.

Although oil prices have recovered somewhat from their collapse in late 2008 and early 2009, we are likely entering into a market where natural gas prices will remain relatively low, at least for an interim period. European gas demand has risen between April and June, however, the EU has reduced its take from Gazprom. Some Russian officials are divided on the reasons why this happened. While Russia?s Deputy Energy Minister, Sergei Kudryashov, argues that Gazprom?s strict pricing drove European buyers to other gas suppliers who have raised their market share in the EU by granting discounts, the company?s CEO, Alexander Medvedev, claimed that Europe reduced its purchase of Russian gas between October 2008 and March 2009 due to lower gas spot market prices, which were half the cost of the long-term contracts. For the Russians, the cost of cutting supplies to Ukraine are rising and the prospects for the Ukrainians to seek higher rents are improving, but the outcome remains uncertain as there is no clear path to resolution.

Against this background of a recurring dispute over transit arrangements, Gazprom is now facing one additional risk. As illustrated in Fig. 1, extensive discounting of gas to oil has been a feature of the U.S. gas markets, which may emerge into a longer term characteristic of world oil and gas

 
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FJV    Mostly self inflicted.   9/25/2009 12:32:34 PM
In my opinion this is more about the Western Europe elite than Russia. If nations in Western Europe had a grown up attitude towards actually having a realistic energy policy there would not be an issue with Russia's intermittent gas supplies..

At the moment a lot of Europes energy policy is so childish, that it in the Netherlands it proved impossible to replace old coal fired power plants with new more efficient ones that pollute less, because of environmentalists unreasonable demands. Our elite is more willing to rely on unstable sources of energy supply, than to occasionally politely say no to environmentalists when they are completely unreasonable.
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       9/25/2009 1:50:43 PM
I wonder if SYSOPS keeps stats on how many posts it takes for a thread to degenerate, or if the rate of degeneration is based on the thread topic.
 
Pat Buchannan also supports the decision to remove the land based interceptors, noting that sea based interceptors do a better job of protecting Isreal.
 
Pat Buchannon and STRATFOR vs Obama bashing zombies:   The zombies lose their heads every time.
 
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sentinel28a       9/25/2009 4:05:16 PM
Is this the same Pat Buchanan that thinks we should've swung a deal with Hitler?  The same one that insists the Civil War wasn't really over slavery?
 
Yeah, I'm not really taking him very seriously here, Nan.  Anyone who advocates making deals with genocidal nutcases is not a guy whose advice I want when dealing with other genocidal nutcases. 
 
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tigertony    Nan?   9/25/2009 4:10:59 PM

I wonder if SYSOPS keeps stats on how many posts it takes for a thread to degenerate, or if the rate of degeneration is based on the thread topic.

 

Pat Buchannan also supports the decision to remove the land based interceptors, noting that sea based interceptors do a better job of protecting Isreal.

 

Pat Buchannon and STRATFOR vs Obama bashing zombies:   The zombies lose their heads every time.



  So when did I bash Obama or Gates in this entire post?  All I said to DA was those attacks would increase on all 3 fronts after he took office. And I asked him how it felt to know those Russians are killing our brave? Notice I got no response since.
   I already stated why the USA should deploy BMD in Poland  "Because Russia said No".
 
 
                                                                          tigertony
 
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sentinel28a       9/25/2009 4:22:28 PM
In response to Mikko's question on the media:
 
Mikko, here in the US, the overwhelming majority of journalism students are trained by retreads from the 1960s.  For these aging hippies, the best times of their lives was writing scathing editorials about the immorality of Vietnam, the evil of LBJ and Nixon, how the US Army was populated solely by psychotic baby-killers, and how the People were going to overthrow the Man and bring down capitalism. 
 
(Though strangely enough, these selfsame journalists sure do enjoy the fruits of capitalism.  My college just built them a nice new shiny journalism building at taxpayer expense, after years of screaming from the journalism department.  Meanwhile, we history profs slave away in tiny, unairconditioned offices.  But I digress.)
 
Anyhow, students taught by these old farts absorb their political views and tend to take it as truth.  So their attitudes towards the military are already warped before they even meet their first soldier.  The smart ones realize pretty quick that soldiers are folks like everyone else, and are highly trained individuals proud of what they do.  However, for every smart reporter who gets to know the troops around them, there are five others who never leave the hotel and rely on local stringers--who may or may not be working for the insurgency, in the case of Iraq.  As far as they're concerned, the military is stupid and immoral, and their stories reflect this.
 
Even in the case of good reporters who do try and tell the truth, their stories get squashed by editors, many of whom are still stuck in the 1960s themselves.  They don't want to hear stories about building schools and repairing roads--borrrrring.  People getting blown up and soldiers getting shot--now that's neat.  If it bleeds it leads, and as the AP recently showed, bleeding soldiers make good press.  Especially if you can work in a pot shot at your favorite punching bag politician in the process (i.e. George W. Bush). 
 
On the military side of the coin, a lot of soldiers figure they're going to be misquoted and shown in the worst possible light.  They have a good reason for it.  During the Second Battle of Fallujah, where the US Army and Marines were fighting some of the most brutal house-to-house combat since Stalingrad, the press didn't bother reporting much on how intense the fighting was or how well the American forces were doing.  Most of the press was devoted to an incident, caught on camera, where a Marine supposedly gunned down an unarmed, wounded prisoner.  It was later revealed that the "prisoner" was indeed wounded, but was also reaching for an AK-47 to kill the Marine in question.  The Marine fired first and saved the lives of his platoon, but the press was so eager to find a new My Lai (Abu Gharib came close, but there wasn't enough dead there) that they latched onto this.  When it became a nonstory, they dropped it.  Haditha was a similiar case: Marines accused of shooting unarmed civilians.  When it turned out the civilians were armed insurgents, the press lost interest.
 
The military tries to cooperate with the press, with varying degrees of success (Schwartzkopf was a master of PR).  The soldiers and pilots would just as soon the press get lost.  They're only going to get in the way, ask stupid questions, and try to find the worst in everything, so why bother even talking to them?  The sad result is a huge misunderstanding: the press assumes the military are psychotic idiots, the military assumes the press are hyenas.  When the two work together, you get some fantastic and fair reporting (Michael Yon comes to mind), but it doesn't happen often.  It's a sad situation.
 
In World War II it wasn't like that, even with the censoring.  I have to blame it on the 1960s.
 
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DarthAmerica       9/25/2009 5:26:04 PM




I wonder if SYSOPS keeps stats on how many posts it takes for a thread to degenerate, or if the rate of degeneration is based on the thread topic.



 



Pat Buchannan also supports the decision to remove the land based interceptors, noting that sea based interceptors do a better job of protecting Isreal.



 



Pat Buchannon and STRATFOR vs Obama bashing zombies:   The zombies lose their heads every time.









  So when did I bash Obama or Gates in this entire post?  All I said to DA was those attacks would increase on all 3 fronts after he took office. And I asked him how it felt to know those Russians are killing our brave? Notice I got no response since.


   I already stated why the USA should deploy BMD in Poland  "Because Russia said No".

 

 

                                                                          tigertony



You got no response because the post was irrelevant and nonsensical as it relates to actually determining the strategies each side is using to achieve it's ends. I don't do "The Russians are coming post" anymore. I look at cold hard analysis that root cause action and national interest. No, I don't think Putin = Stalin. No, I don't think Ahmadinejad is insane nor do I share the view that Iran is out to commit national suicide just use a nuke on Israel. All of that is stupid to me and it waste others and my time to fill threads with rhetoric such as this. Have you noticed the fanatical conservative positions on this site are almost 99% wrong or that when I post things like, EU BMD is related to Iran via the threat it poses to Russia due to their historic fear of invasion via Poland ect. it's almost always accurate? That's because my views on these issues are not shaped by emotion or bias.

-DA 

-DA 
 
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