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Subject: What the US Healthcare debate is really about
Aussiegunneragain    9/14/2009 6:05:16 AM
Dreading getting sick not healthy Andrew Sullivan | September 14, 2009 Article from: The Australian THERE are many valid criticisms to be made of US healthcare, but let me tell a story that helps explain its strengths. Only 15 years ago, the retrovirus HIV was killing thousands in the US - six times as many young Americans have died of AIDS as died in Vietnam -- and researchers had never found a way to stop such a sophisticated and constantly evolving organism from burying itself in people's immune systems and slowly destroying them. I was told in 1993 that I had a few years to live. I write this 16 years later with a stronger immune system than I have ever measured before. The US's much-maligned healthcare system did this. Without this vast and free market in medical care and pharmaceuticals, without the potential for making large amounts of money from affluent and insured patients, the innovation of treatments would never have occurred at the pace it did. Yes, publicly funded research was also vital - but it is rightly restricted to basic science, not finessing drugs for humans. Now we have dozens of anti-HIV drugs, from private companies competing with each other, and my life is saved. How do I put a price on that? Here's the catch. This miraculous process was possible for me only because I had insurance through my employer. When I quit my job editing The New Republic, in part to grapple with HIV's toll, my employer compassionately allowed me to stay on staff at a low salary solely to protect me from going without insurance at all. You see: once without insurance in America, I would never have been able to get it again. I would have had a "pre-existing condition" and no insurance company would have accepted me. An uninsured freelancer with HIV had one option if he were to survive - heading fast into personal bankruptcy. If I had finally lost everything, I would then have been able to apply for public assistance. Losing everything you have ever had to prevent your own death was nearly my fate. It is the fate of many in the US - not the very poor, who are helped, however badly and expensively, in hospital emergency rooms - but the working middle classes who lose their healthcare soon after they lose their job. It is this that is at the centre of Barack Obama's proposals for reform. Yes, finding a way to control soaring costs is essential, and Obama's final compromise bill, especially if it is without an option for an affordable publicly provided plan, doesn't do nearly enough. Nonetheless, what the President was really selling last week was a little more middle-class security. And that was why it was more politically lethal, I suspect, than the pundit class has yet to absorb. Some see the potency of this move. Back in 1993, when the Clintons proposed a much more ambitious plan, Republican strategist Bill Kristol wrote a famous memo arguing that the Right should not negotiate or propose an alternative but should simply do all it could to kill the bill. In it, he shrewdly homed in on the danger as he saw it: "The long-term political effects of a successful Clinton healthcare bill will be even worse - much worse (than its medical consequences). It will re-legitimise middle-class dependency for 'security' on government spending and regulation. It will revive the reputation of the party that spends and regulates, the Democrats, as the generous protector of middle-class interests. And it will at the same time strike a punishing blow against Republican claims to defend the middle class by restraining government." I understand this sentiment and, given my libertarian leanings, tend to resist government intervention when it is unnecessary. I opposed the Clinton plan as too centrally dictated and bureaucratic. In an ideal world, I'd like to scrap the US system entirely, sever the connection between employment and health insurance, allow individuals to buy insurance from competing healthcare exchanges, and leave the rest to fee-for-service medicine. But it is a political fact that this won't happen in America. Obama's speech last week was therefore directed at people like me: suspicious of change and government, but aware the system is both inefficient and at some point cruel, even immoral. He played the Burkean card: "I believe it makes more sense to build on what works and fix what doesn't, rather than try to build an entirely new system from scratch." He dangled the prospect of relief: "As soon as I sign this bill, it will be against the law for insurance companies to drop your coverage when you get sick, or water it down when you need it most." And here's the best pitch for universal healthcare to conservatives in a long time: "That large-heartedness - that concern and regard for the plight of others - is not a partisan feeling. It is not a Republican or a Democratic feeling. It, too, is part of the American character." This patriotic appeal was the real import o
 
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PlatypusMaximus       11/22/2009 7:38:30 AM
Activate Crayon...
Don't like it? Don't swear to protect, preserve and defend it.
 
 
 
I just cannot fathom people who were originally for universal HC and then evolved to support what has been put forth. There is no possible outcome more likely than the insurance companies win, the people lose. Why would they see people suffer and even die and then consider that a mere incremental step toward them helping people? Stupid-Bad...or...Evil-Worse
 
 
 

 
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warpig       12/22/2009 6:10:15 PM
 
Yet another domestic enemy of the Constitution sounds off from within our Congress.
 
From the Patriot Post:
-------------------------
Where in the Constitution is the authority to mandate that Americans buy health insurance?
 
"Well, I just think the Constitution charges Congress with the health and well-being of the people." --Sen. Blanche Lincoln (D-AR)
 
 
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warpig       1/8/2010 2:08:32 PM
Yet another domestic enemy of the Constitution sounds off from within our Congress.

From the Patriot Post:

-------------------------
 

When questioned several weeks back about the constitutional authority... for ObamaCare, Obama's publicist, Robert Gibbs, issued this disclaimer: "I don't believe there's a lot of -- I don't believe there's a lot of case law that would demonstrate the veracity" of questions about constitutional authority. Ah, yes, "case law." That's code for amending our Constitution by judicial diktat... rather than via its prescribed method as stated in Article V.
 
This week, Gibbs reiterated, "I do not believe that anybody has legitimate constitutional concerns about the [health care] legislation."
 
Furthermore, when asked where the authority to mandate that Americans buy health insurance -- that they be forced under penalty of fine or imprisonment to engage in a particular commercial enterprise -- is located in the Constitution, Sen. Diane Feinstein (D-CA) answered, "Well, I would assume it would be in the Commerce clause of the Constitution. That's how Congress legislates all kinds of various programs."
 
Congress too often uses this clause to do whatever it wants to do (the legislative target might, just might, some day engage in interstate commerce, don't you know,) but this incorrect interpretation certainly doesn't make this legislation constitutional.
 
 
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warpig       1/8/2010 5:59:33 PM

"We will have a public, uh, process for forming this plan. It'll be televised on C-SPAN.... It will be transparent and accountable to the American people." --Barack Obama, November 2007

"That's what I will do in bringing all parties together, not negotiating behind closed doors, but bringing all parties together, and broadcasting those negotiations on C-SPAN so that the American people can see what the choices are, because part of what we have to do is enlist the American people in this process." --Barack Obama, January 2008

"[T]hese negotiations will be on C-SPAN..." --Barack Obama, January 2008

"We're gonna do all these negotiations on C-SPAN so the American people will be able to watch these negotiations." --Barack Obama, March 2008

"All this will be done on C-SPAN in front of the public." --Barack Obama, April 2008

"I want the negotiations to be taking place on C-SPAN." --Barack Obama, May 2008

"[W]e'll have the negotiations televised on C-SPAN, so that people can see who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who is, who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies." --Barack Obama, August 2008

"We will work on this process publicly. It'll be on C-SPAN. It will be streaming over the Net." --Barack Obama, November 2008
 
 
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Jeff_F_F    The "Democrat Party"   1/9/2010 3:13:54 AM
Remember, they are called the Democrat Party not the "Democratic Party".
There is a reason for that.
 
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PlatypusMaximus       1/9/2010 8:11:24 AM
"It is time to think the unthinkable and speak the ineffable. Apart from the troubling question of intent, or whether Obama-Pelosi-Reid just have a novel view of the public interest, the national Democrats are unnaturally and mysteriously sanguine despite growing backlash by the American people. Why? One reason:  The Dems don't believe they will ever have to face a real election again. Is their plan not becoming obvious? It is very straightforward: "
 
 h**p://www.americanthinker.com/2010/01/understanding_the_democrats_sc.html
 
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PlatypusMaximus       1/9/2010 11:31:08 AM
"It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals and medications somehow think we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medications and a government bureaucracy to administer "universal healthcare."
                                                 -- Thomas Sowell
 
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strat-T21C    it's not that bad   1/9/2010 10:08:43 PM
I pay $44 /month and my 3 boys,wife and myself get total coverage. Too many people shouting at once I guess.
 
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reefdiver       1/11/2010 9:08:14 AM

I pay $44 /month and my 3 boys,wife and myself get total coverage. Too many people shouting at once I guess.

I'm a self employed consultant - my wife an I are in mid to late 50's and pay over $1300 for the 3 of us for bascially only catastrophic coverage. Despite that, I fear a government takeover of healthcare (ultimately guaranteed by any bill on the table) more than death itself - because of how it will affect my family, freedom, and liberty in the US of the future.

 
 
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PlatypusMaximus    Dear OP author, nice knowing you, and thanks.Obama.   1/11/2010 2:41:26 PM
TV ad's from candidate Obama:
 
Announcer: John McCain on health care.


John McCain: ?I want to give every American a 5,000-dollar refundable tax credit.?

Announcer: Here?s the truth.

Barack Obama: ?He says that he?s going to give you a 5,000-dollar tax credit. What he doesn?t tell you is that he is going to tax your employer-based health-care benefits for the first time ever. So what one hand giveth, the other hand taketh away.?

Announcer: John McCain. Instead of fixing health care, he wants to tax it.

Barack Obama: I?m Barack Obama, and I approve this message.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Announcer: In Nevada, we work hard, and many of us get health insurance through our jobs. John McCain?s health plan would tax our health benefits as income. Taxing health benefits for the first time ever, meaning higher taxes for us. Under McCain, insurance companies prosper. Nevadans pay. Taxing our health-care benefits. An idea we should send back to Arizona. John McCain doesn?t get Nevada. He doesn?t get us.

Barack Obama: ?I?m Barack Obama, and I approve this message.?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Text]: McCain?s health plan. What she said.

Sarah Palin: ?He?s proposing a 5,000-dollar tax credit for families so that they can get out there, and they can purchase their own health-care coverage.?

[Text]: What she didn?t say.

Joe Biden: ?Well, you know how John McCain pays for his 5,000-dollar tax credit? He taxes as income every one of you out there, every one of you listening who has a health-care plan through your employer. Taxing your health-care benefit. I call that the ultimate Bridge to Nowhere.?

[Text]: Taxing health benefits for the first time ever.

Gwen Ifill: ?Thank you, Senator.?

[Text]: The McCain health tax. What they can?t explain.

Barack Obama: ?I?m Barack Obama, and I approve this message.?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And I can make a firm pledge: under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 will see their taxes increase - not your income taxes, not your payroll taxes, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes. My opponent can't make that pledge, and here's why: for the first time in American history, he wants to tax your health benefits Apparently, Senator McCain doesn't think it's enough that your health premiums have doubled, he thinks you should have to pay taxes on them too. That's a $3.6 trillion tax increase on middle class families. That will eventually leave tens of millions of you paying higher taxes. That's his idea of change. . . . .
                                                                        --Candidate Obama
                                                          
 
John McCain calls these plans "Cadillac plans." Now in some cases, it may be that a corporate CEO is getting too good a deal. But what if you're a line worker making a good American car like the Cadillac? What if you're one of the steelworkers who are working right here in Newport News, and you've given up wage increases in exchange for a better health care?Well, Senator McCain believes you should pay higher taxes too. The bottom line: the better your health care plan - the harder you've fought for your good benefits - the higher the taxes you'll pay.
                                                                        --Candidate Obama
--
 
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