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Subject: Is Obama the world's biggest idiotic fool or what?
Panther    7/1/2009 2:21:13 AM
Lot's of great stuff coming out of Iran, from the MEMRI website: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Criticizes U.S. President Obama for Interfering in Iran's Elections Dispute: "He Has Removed His Mask" Following are excerpts from an address by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, which aired on IRINN, the Iranian News Channel, on June 25 and 27, 2009. To view this clip on MEMRI TV, visit link "He has Revealed His Hand to the Iranian people, to All Peoples? Mr. Obama has Made a Big Mistake" Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: "Mr. Obama is surprising. Why did he interfere? He said they would bring about change. Why did he interfere? Why does he express an opinion, contrary to the norms and to the rules of etiquette? "He keeps saying that he wants to hold negotiations with Iran. Fine. We expressed our willingness, but with such rhetoric... He was definitely wrong. He has revealed his hand to the Iranian people, to all peoples. He has removed his mask. Even if we were to spend hundreds and thousands of billions of tomans on propaganda and diplomacy, in an effort to tell the world what [the Americans] are like, and to tell it that they have not changed that much, we could not have don?t this [any better than Obama]. [...] "In my view, Mr. Obama has made a big mistake. Regarding the governments of England and of one or two European countries, whose past and whose actions are known to all, and who have no shame vis-à-vis the world - we do not expect anything from them. But the question is why Mr. Obama fell into this trap. Why did he commit this mistake? Why did he say the same things that were said before by Mr. Bush, and for which he suffered certain consequences?? "Why Did You Deviate From This Path [of Reform] and Fall Into This Pit?" "You were the one who talked about making reforms and changes, and about considering [relations] with the Iranian people. Why did you deviate from this path and fall into this pit, into this trap? They went to sleep, and when they woke up in the morning, they remembered the days the world was ruled by the emperors of the Middle Ages. Those times are over. Open your eyes. The world has changed. Everything has changed. What kind of talk is this towards such a great nation?! [...] "I inform them for the umpteenth time that the nearly 40 million people who participated in the elections are not comfortable with their conduct. They will stand against them. The Iranian nation is a great nation, a nation with honor, a nation with capabilities. It sees all that is going on, and at the right moment, it will make the necessary decision." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Wait, that is not all folks! It is followed with more hilarity --------------------------------------------------------------------- Iranian Regime-Affiliated Organization: Europe and America Are Turning Muslim ? An Opportunity to Spread Shi'a Islam On May 8, 2009, an article titled "France is Turning into an Islamic Republic" was posted on www.abna.ir, the official website of the Iran-based International Ahl Al-Bayt Foundation. [1] The secretary-general of this foundation, Mohammad Ahmad Akhtari, is deputy of international affairs in the office of Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, and former Iranian ambassador to Syria. [2] He was appointed by Khamenei to head the foundation in March 2004. [3] The article surveyed the growth of the Muslim population in Europe, the U.S., and Canada, which, it claimed, is due to a higher birth rate among Muslims as compared to Christians, as well as to immigration. The article called on the Shi'ite institutions and clerics to take advantage of the situation, namely, that the Muslims will soon become a majority in most of the European countries and the U.S., and to introduce the local Christian population to the Shi'ite school of thought - since, according to the writer - it is more appealing than Sunni Islam. Following are the main claims of the article. [4] It should be stressed that the data brought in the article is unsubstantiated and should be perceived as reflecting the positions of the Iranian foundation. "The Culture of a Country Where the Birth Rate Remains Less than 2.5% for 25 Years Cannot Endure" After comparing the growth rate of the Muslim and the Christian populations in France, statisticians claim that in 40 years at most, France will become a predominantly Muslim country. "An average [non-Muslim] family in France has 1.8 members, as compared to an average Muslim family there, which has 8.1 members? In France today, there are more mosques than churches. Thirty percent of all babies and young people under the age of 20 there are Muslim, but in large cities such as Paris, Nice, and Marseille, 45 percent [are Muslim]. The conclusion is that if this ratio does not change
 
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Panther       7/4/2009 5:57:12 AM

The author of ur article wrote this--

"The Shi'a will be Accepted by the Christians More Quickly than the Sufi or the Wahhabi Philosophy "

 

This is Ignormus MAXIMUS. I know Shia's , Sufis, and Sunnis. The Sufis are the mildest and even have sufi music, the Shia's are the ones that go about once a year beating  themselves and their kids till they bled- whats that called self-something, I mean even the kids bleed from their skulls and backs. The Sunnis(the Wahabi subsect the most extreme of theSunnis is Osama's sect and they are no better) well they are the majority of Moslems that we identify with. So if this author had a clue about Islamic sects it would be " None of the Moslem sects would be acceptable by the Christians perhaps the Sufis are the easiest, the Sunnis well just toss a coin if he is on the same flight as you , and the SHias

just mind their own business until u buttin then they grab ur embassy" Now the secular Moslems (all of them) are the ones Christians can deal with and there are bunch in the West but probaly less than 1% of the billion or so moslems worldwide.

 

I hope that clears out the various Islamic sects.


I guess you are not familiar with the website memri? If not, then i suggest you do so! An Islamic religous leader being ignorant of his own religon?! Do you not find that especially scary? Do you not see the ease with which the muslim masses are manipulated? 


What ever anyone says, Mark Steyn was right... we are ignoring the truth at our own peril!
 
 
By the way... i will over look the subtle insult, because you really don't know me as of yet! Once you do... then perhaps you might realize...
 
 
 
 you were right after all?   ;-)
 
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Panther       7/4/2009 6:26:06 AM




So support Moussavi and you support Ayatollah Khomeini's gang, support Ahmedinijabad and support the new gang. (under Ayotollah Khameni) How do you tell the difference between an Iranian liberal and conservative Ayatollah  Khomeini and Ayatollah Khameini? Khameini and Khomeni even sound the same. And Americans and Brits are as usual not really cool with  the Iranian masses. Obama did the right thing. Nothing.


Oops, this didn't get posted the first time.
 
 I like to think that i am decently aware of Persian pride in their identity and culture,  that is also considering that Persian and Arabs have never gotten along so swimmingly either! I'm also aware of both parties constant barrage of insults towards the west. But, if Obama is going too keep dragging us into this, so called reaching his peaceful hand out to any Iranian-mullah-ran government, then i hope to hell he knows what he is doing and is going too choose wisely which course is the correct one in the long term, seeing that it will effect us all for decades too come!? Much like Jimmy Carter's screwball antics giving life to these bunch of nutcase mullahs, by doing nothing! Well, that not true. He did do something by blaming us for it! Sure successive Presidents did not help the situation much either.
 
By the way, are we really sure Mr. Obama is doing the right thing, by doing nothing? Doing nothing is what got us here in the first place!
 
Am i being sacrereligious enough yet?
 
 
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Le Zookeeper    Panther   7/4/2009 12:06:30 PM
Whatever the author's qualification let me assure you Sufism is the mildest form of Islam, Shia and Wahabi(extreme Sunni) the most extreme, Sunni's are extreme enough also. And you are absolutely unaware of Iranian culture if you posted what you did. I am not trying to insult you here, considering the Shah of Iran was also out of touch with the Iranian masses and got the boot. Iran is a conservative religious country mainly in the regions outside Tehran, thats why Ahmednijabad WON!! The elections were not fraudulent. This mini revolt is an internal power grab for money and influence between Rafsanjani and Ahmednijabad, US & UK can score no extra points either way.
 
And Iran Shia modern day evolved from eradication of fire worshippers Zoroastrians who were convered killed and expelled ( they moved to India and one of the families run the biggest software outsourcing company TATA)- thats the brief history of religion in Iran. Freddie Mercury of Queen too was of Zoroastrian descent_ they are truly the modern Iranians now mostly in Mumbai, London, & Toronto). The Iranian Shias u see demonstarting in Universities everywhere simply have no modernism?? in them, Shia Islam destroyed it.
 
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Photon       7/14/2009 3:43:32 AM

Whatever the author's qualification let me assure you Sufism is the mildest form of Islam, Shia and Wahabi(extreme Sunni) the most extreme, Sunni's are extreme enough also. And you are absolutely unaware of Iranian culture if you posted what you did. I am not trying to insult you here, considering the Shah of Iran was also out of touch with the Iranian masses and got the boot. Iran is a conservative religious country mainly in the regions outside Tehran, thats why Ahmednijabad WON!!
The elections were not fraudulent. This mini revolt is an internal power grab for money and influence between Rafsanjani and Ahmednijabad, US & UK can score no extra points either way.

 

And Iran Shia modern day evolved from eradication of fire worshippers Zoroastrians who were convered killed and expelled ( they moved to India and one of the families run the biggest software outsourcing company TATA)- thats the brief history of religion in Iran. Freddie Mercury of Queen too was of Zoroastrian descent_ they are truly the modern Iranians now mostly in Mumbai, London, & Toronto). The Iranian Shias u see demonstarting in Universities everywhere simply have no modernism?? in them, Shia Islam destroyed it.

Excellent point.  I would also add that Iran 2009 is not Romania 1989:  One thing that turned out to be fatal for Ceaucescu was his own military refused to shoot civilians and instead switched sides and executed him instead.  Nothing like that exists in Iran right now.  No such threat lingers around the neck of Ahmadinejad nor Rafsanjani nor other prominent clerics and politicians.
 
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Wicked Chinchilla       7/14/2009 7:49:40 AM
You really dont get it do you panther? 
 
The point was NOT to talk to the Iranians.  The U.S. knows the Iranians will most likely not budge on anything we would negoitate them with and that talking with them will in all likelihood be a complete waste of time.  The point of extending our hand is for that very reason.  All this time the U.S. was demonized about asking for preconditions, and "trying to enforce our will" on their internal policies.  Well, given that we extended our hand, knowing it will get slapped away, the ball is in their court.  Guess who the bad guy is again?  Not us. 
 
We and the Iranians have always known the score.  We just stopped playing into their game plan.  Thats also why the U.S. response (well, sort of non-response) to the revolution over there is also the correct action.  ANY type of move we make will simply enable them to cast the revolution as an American interference into an internal struggle.  This will alienate them further inside their own country and within the muslim world.  By keeping a platform of non-involvement and letting things play out it keeps all the attention, criticism, and responsibility inside Iran and thus there is no interfereing "Great Devil" undermining the legitimacy the revolution itself or any type of consequences that arise from it. 
 
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bigfella       7/14/2009 8:57:39 AM

You really dont get it do you panther? 

 

The point was NOT to talk to the Iranians.  The U.S. knows the Iranians will most likely not budge on anything we would negoitate them with and that talking with them will in all likelihood be a complete waste of time.  The point of extending our hand is for that very reason.  All this time the U.S. was demonized about asking for preconditions, and "trying to enforce our will" on their internal policies.  Well, given that we extended our hand, knowing it will get slapped away, the ball is in their court.  Guess who the bad guy is again?  Not us. 

 

We and the Iranians have always known the score.  We just stopped playing into their game plan.  Thats also why the U.S. response (well, sort of non-response) to the revolution over there is also the correct action.  ANY type of move we make will simply enable them to cast the revolution as an American interference into an internal struggle.  This will alienate them further inside their own country and within the muslim world.  By keeping a platform of non-involvement and letting things play out it keeps all the attention, criticism, and responsibility inside Iran and thus there is no interfereing "Great Devil" undermining the legitimacy the revolution itself or any type of consequences that arise from it. 


Well observed WC. The current regime in Iran has dug itself into a fairly deep hole. It won't fall stright away, but it has done itself tremendous damage with the only people who really matter here- Iranians. A-jad may well have won a majority. At the very least he got a large minority. I don't doubt there was cheating. The real story was not the street protests, but the rumbles of discontent among clerics & even in the revolutionary guards. If Khamenei is dumb enough to try to get his son to replace him there will be widespread & public dissent by even more clerics.
 
My question to critics of Obama is to tell me the things he could & should have done that would have helped bring about a more positive outcome in Iran? Any overt US involvement would simply have given A-jad & co a way to direct attention from themselves. As it is, by alienating a chunk of the clerical class they ultimately risk the support of their base - conservative, religious rural voters.
 
As for dealing with potential nukes, spot on WC. If it is to happen it will need to be seen that America has taken all reasonable steps to deal with the issue through negotiation. Let the talks play out. While they do the US can work on gaining support for alternative courses of action or at least neutralizing opposition.
 
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Panther       7/16/2009 5:54:27 AM
Sigh.......
 
Subtlety and irony seems to be a dying art i see, at least for the most part, here in the west i suppose?
 
Anyways.... There is only one particular problem we need too work through first gentlemen, before carrying on; The US has not been officially engaged with Iran since the disaster of the Carter administration! So, how can a government adopt a hands off approach, when it had already been practicing that for thirty years now! So, yes... Obama is starting to prove himself to be a bigger idiot then i cared to believe a few months back!
 
I would not even bother bringing the shah himself into it. He has been rejuvenated into a complete boyscout when compared too this bunch!
 
P.S. Don't even bother blaming the US or the West  prior to 2008, 2001, 1998, 1990 or 1979 for this middle eastern mess!
 
It may fly with fellow indoctrinates, but not with me! Now if anyone wants to bring objectivity into the matter, then i might be all ears! But, not until then.. because frankly i am sick of all these thirty years of wasted moments, political back and forth bickering, shades of gray, namby-pamby, bull s#!t,  a$$ groveling kumbayah moments!
 
That is no longer freedom of speech. That is pure subterfuge d@mmit!
 
 

 
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Wicked Chinchilla       7/16/2009 11:00:56 AM
huh?
 
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Panther       7/18/2009 6:38:16 PM

huh?

I am sorry you all don't get it. Go to Michael Totten's website at:
 
link
 
and read his many offerings on this particular subject.
 
Opportunities in history are very brief moments in time.
 
The door is still open for Obama and strangely he is not taking it. Unless he actually does not really believe in democracy or freedom too choose one's own government? Which is kind of a scary thought i think.
 
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Photon       7/18/2009 7:08:59 PM
Sometimes, the best course of action is not to take action.  Today's Iran qualifies as such.  Leave the clerics and the radicals to cause even more dysfunction in their own backyard and let the house of card collapse.  Meanwhile, it would be ridiculous for the US to do anything even remotely approaching OIF, considering we have already made military commitments in Iraq and Afghanistan.  (In addition, unless Iran pulls off something close to the 9-11, there is just not going to be much of public support for another war.  Not to mention that the voters are becoming more and more weary of current wars.)
 
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