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Subject: Is Obama the world's biggest idiotic fool or what?
Panther    7/1/2009 2:21:13 AM
Lot's of great stuff coming out of Iran, from the MEMRI website:

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Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Criticizes U.S. President Obama for Interfering in Iran's Elections Dispute: "He Has Removed His Mask"

Following are excerpts from an address by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, which aired on IRINN, the Iranian News Channel, on June 25 and 27, 2009.

To view this clip on MEMRI TV, visit link

"He has Revealed His Hand to the Iranian people, to All Peoples? Mr. Obama has Made a Big Mistake"

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: "Mr. Obama is surprising. Why did he interfere? He said they would bring about change. Why did he interfere? Why does he express an opinion, contrary to the norms and to the rules of etiquette?

"He keeps saying that he wants to hold negotiations with Iran. Fine. We expressed our willingness, but with such rhetoric... He was definitely wrong. He has revealed his hand to the Iranian people, to all peoples. He has removed his mask. Even if we were to spend hundreds and thousands of billions of tomans on propaganda and diplomacy, in an effort to tell the world what [the Americans] are like, and to tell it that they have not changed that much, we could not have don?t this [any better than Obama].

[...]

"In my view, Mr. Obama has made a big mistake. Regarding the governments of England and of one or two European countries, whose past and whose actions are known to all, and who have no shame vis-à-vis the world - we do not expect anything from them. But the question is why Mr. Obama fell into this trap. Why did he commit this mistake? Why did he say the same things that were said before by Mr. Bush, and for which he suffered certain consequences??

"Why Did You Deviate From This Path [of Reform] and Fall Into This Pit?"

"You were the one who talked about making reforms and changes, and about considering [relations] with the Iranian people. Why did you deviate from this path and fall into this pit, into this trap?

They went to sleep, and when they woke up in the morning, they remembered the days the world was ruled by the emperors of the Middle Ages. Those times are over. Open your eyes. The world has changed. Everything has changed. What kind of talk is this towards such a great nation?!

[...]

"I inform them for the umpteenth time that the nearly 40 million people who participated in the elections are not comfortable with their conduct. They will stand against them. The Iranian nation is a great nation, a nation with honor, a nation with capabilities. It sees all that is going on, and at the right moment, it will make the necessary decision."
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Wait, that is not all folks! It is followed with more hilarity



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Iranian Regime-Affiliated Organization: Europe and America Are Turning Muslim ? An Opportunity to Spread Shi'a Islam

On May 8, 2009, an article titled "France is Turning into an Islamic Republic" was posted on www.abna.ir, the official website of the Iran-based International Ahl Al-Bayt Foundation. [1] The secretary-general of this foundation, Mohammad Ahmad Akhtari, is deputy of international affairs in the office of Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, and former Iranian ambassador to Syria. [2] He was appointed by Khamenei to head the foundation in March 2004. [3]

The article surveyed the growth of the Muslim population in Europe, the U.S., and Canada, which, it claimed, is due to a higher birth rate among Muslims as compared to Christians, as well as to immigration. The article called on the Shi'ite institutions and clerics to take advantage of the situation, namely, that the Muslims will soon become a majority in most of the European countries and the U.S., and to introduce the local Christian population to the Shi'ite school of thought - since, according to the writer - it is more appealing than Sunni Islam.

Following are the main claims of the article. [4] It should be stressed that the data brought in the article is unsubstantiated and should be perceived as reflecting the positions of the Iranian foundation.

"The Culture of a Country Where the Birth Rate Remains Less than 2.5% for 25 Years Cannot Endure"

After comparing the growth rate of the Muslim and the Christian populations in France, statisticians claim that in 40 years at most, France will become a predominantly Muslim country.

"An average [non-Muslim] family in France has 1.8 members, as compared to an average Muslim family there, which has 8.1 members? In France today, there are more mosques than churches. Thirty percent of all babies and young people under the age of 20 there are Muslim, but in large cities such as Paris, Nice, and Marseille, 45 percent [are Muslim]. The conclusion is that if this ratio does not change, by 2025 one out of every five French [residents] will be Muslim, and France will turn into a Muslim state.

"The situation in most [other] Western countries is similar. In Britain, the growth-rate of the Christian population is 1.6% [per annum]; in Greece - 1.3%; in Germany - 1.3%; in Italy - 1.2%; and in Spain - 1.1%. The average [natural] growth of the Christian population in the 31 European Union states is 1.38%. Demographers and statisticians believe that the culture and the civilization of a country where the birth rate remains less than 2.5% for 25 years cannot endure?"

"The European Union Warns that by 2025, Most of the Babies Born in Europe Every Year Will Be Muslim"

"Based on these statistics, the [overall] European population should be very small, but in reality it is growing. Why?

"Farah Sadiqi, a Pakistani researcher who resides in Europe, believes that the reason for this phenomenon is the Muslim immigration to the European continent... Thirty years ago there were 82,000 Muslims in England, while today their number is 2,500,000. England has over 1000 mosques, most of which are in former church buildings which were purchased from the Christians. In Holland, half of the babies that are born each year are Muslim; if this rate is sustained, 15 years from now half of the Dutch population will be Muslim. In Russia the Muslim population numbers 23 million; in a few years, Muslims will constitute 40% of the Russian military forces. In Belgium, 25% of the population is Muslim, and so are half of all babies born each year. In Germany, the government has recently announced that ? by 2050, that country may turn into a Muslim state. The German government believes that the Muslim population in Europe, which currently numbers 5.2 [sic] million, [5] will double in the next 20 years. The European Union has warned that by 2025, most of the babies born in Europe yearly will be Muslim.

"It is obvious that neither the means [for birth control] nor the European countries' campaign to this effect have been successful in preventing the growth of the Muslim population."

The Shi'a will be Accepted by the Christians More Quickly than the Sufi or the Wahhabi Philosophy

"A point of great importance is that Shi'ite organizations, institutions, and senior clerics should take advantage of these circumstances and intensify their efforts to introduce the European nations and the Americans to the Shi'ite school of thought. This school of thought is undoubtedly the closest to the origins of the European thought in both intellectual infrastructures and innate doctrines, and will be accepted much more quickly than the Sufi or the Wahhabi philosophy? This is contingent on the efforts [to propagate the Shi'a] being made at the right time."

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Who knew he as well as we would get burned by reaching out a welcoming hand too our enemies? Gee... they certainly fooled the hell out of me! DUH!!!!!!!



Gee it is so nice to know i belong too a fallen nation. (There words, not mine!)

 
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EvilFishy       7/1/2009 2:40:42 AM
Well, he had to TRY!  I mean, that idiot cowboy Bush screwed things up so badly for us, I mean, he had to do SOMETHING!
 
/s
 
I cannot tell if this man is a moron or if he is doing this on purpose.  I really cannot tell.   It does not really matter; you and I are going to suffer this CHANGE either way.
 
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PlatypusMaximus       7/1/2009 7:22:53 AM
The man is 100% brilliant.
 
A brillinat man who behaves moronically is an idealogue....we toldjaso.
 
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EvilFishy       7/1/2009 1:46:12 PM

Yeah Platy, but is there time to stop/halt/reverse the damage that is being done?

 
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PlatypusMaximus       7/1/2009 3:18:54 PM
We have nothing but time and history is squarely on our side, but with respect to our lifetimes, ...Will this generation of democrats admit that nation building produced better results than coddling madmen?...I'd say Israel nukes us first.
 
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Panther       7/1/2009 10:51:58 PM
Think of the three decade cluster-f**k for an aftermath that is the Jimmy Carter legacy. Now multiply that many times with a possible equation for the next forty years of more pu$$yfooting around with them, and perhaps a currently avoidable war turning into an unavoidable  future one with perhaps many nuclear exchanges!
 
The Iranian voters tried too change some of this, Obama dithered in some neutral utopian world that doesn't exists as of yet and we still got blamed anyways; While our possible future Iranians allies died while the same old delusionally  crazed Iranian government is still nicely in place for the much more higher possibility of the probable march to a confrontationally bloody war betwen the West and the uncontrollably brutal mullah ruled Iran, that at one time was the once proud & mighty Persian empire!
 
Oh hell... and don't even get me started on NoKo!
 
The scenario's just get more depressing the more one thinks about it.
 
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Panther       7/3/2009 9:45:53 PM
Apparently, the Iranians are not going along with Obama's and the rest f the West..... Kumbayah praise-a-thon. Seeing that the British embassy is being tried in Iranian courts for allegedly sparking the protests of "Ima Nutjob" stolen election! That and none of their rhetoric has changed, they have forcefully and brutally put down a protest in the most illegal and inhuman of ways that also ran counter to their own supposed constitution!
 
"Oh... i am so sure they will get a fair, nonpolitical, most impartial and very secular hearing"? Yeah right!
 
First they came for the American embassy staff in 79, and now they come for the British embassy staff in 09'!
 
To Obama worshippers: I'm rather surprised that Obama supporters haven't steped up to the plate to debate this cluster-f**k of growing diplomacy failures that he is still deluding himself into believing actually exists, or that it ever did exist since the mullah revolution in 79? Is it because there is the possibility that you all realize that he is actually wrong too be kowtowing to a bunch of cut-throat theocrats or perhaps you all are awakening to the fact that he wants to be, oh -wait a minute.........could it be that he has always been just like them?
 
Come on! Why the silence????????
 
 
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       7/3/2009 10:08:33 PM

Apparently, the Iranians are not going along with Obama's and the rest f the West..... Kumbayah praise-a-thon. Seeing that the British embassy is being tried in Iranian courts for allegedly sparking the protests of "Ima Nutjob" stolen election! That and none of their rhetoric has changed, they have forcefully and brutally put down a protest in the most illegal and inhuman of ways that also ran counter to their own supposed constitution!

 

"Oh... i am so sure they will get a fair, nonpolitical, most impartial and very secular hearing"? Yeah right!


 

First they came for the American embassy staff in 79, and now they come for the British embassy staff in 09'!


 

To Obama worshippers: I'm rather surprised that Obama supporters haven't steped up to the plate to debate this cluster-f**k of growing diplomacy failures that he is still deluding himself into believing actually exists, or that it ever did exist since the mullah revolution in 79? Is it because there is the possibility that you all realize that he is actually wrong too be kowtowing to a bunch of cut-throat theocrats or perhaps you all are awakening to the fact that he wants to be, oh -wait a minute.........could it be that he has always been just like them?


 

Come on! Why the silence????????


 

 


The difference is that the 79 revolution was against the Shah, this time it is more like the Chinese Cultural Revolution, a "revolution" by the establishment against a real revolution in the making.  This may be the beginning of a civil war, as the mullahs themselves are split, I'll bet the military is too.
 
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Le Zookeeper    What What Panther?? How could I not see te genius in this idea of urs!!   7/4/2009 2:32:41 AM
Brilliant ,support Moussavi and "Iranian Liberals" against the jackass neo Nazi Ahmednijabad in an active manner and you are gonna have Showtime beamed right into every Iranians home. Do you even know who these alleged "liberals" are? Let me tell you THE REAL STORY. Ayatollah Khomeini's buddies including Rafsanjhani etc have made a ton of money since 1979 when Shah got the goodbye from Iranian masses (and oh he was a liberal!!! mini skirts ok, psst Iran is basically a conserative Islamic society, the Saudis warned the Shah to stop Westernization as that wouldn't be accepted), getting back to this flare up. Now AHmednijabad and team are the new boys in town and they do not like the Moussavi clique since they are lining their pockets (call it earmarks)- thats all it is, and internal power struggle at the highest level FOR MONEY!!!
So support Moussavi and you support Ayatollah Khomeini's gang, support Ahmedinijabad and support the new gang. (under Ayotollah Khameni) How do you tell the difference between an Iranian liberal and conservative Ayatollah  Khomeini and Ayatollah Khameini? Khameini and Khomeni even sound the same. And Americans and Brits are as usual not really cool with  the Iranian masses. Obama did the right thing. Nothing.
 
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Le Zookeeper    Here, some common sense   7/4/2009 2:44:24 AM
Graphic for Geopolitical Intelligence Report

 

By George Friedman

Speaking of the situation in Iran, U.S. President Barack Obama said June 26, ?We don?t yet know how any potential dialogue will have been affected until we see what has happened inside of Iran.? On the surface that is a strange statement, since we know that with minor exceptions, the demonstrations in Tehran lost steam after Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei called for them to end and security forces asserted themselves. By the conventional wisdom, events in Iran represent an oppressive regime crushing a popular rising. If so, it is odd that the U.S. president would raise the question of what has happened in Iran.

In reality, Obama?s point is well taken. This is because the real struggle in Iran has not yet been settled, nor was it ever about the liberalization of the regime. Rather, it has been about the role of the clergy — particularly the old-guard clergy — in Iranian life, and the future of particular personalities among this clergy.

Ahmadinejad Against the Clerical Elite

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad ran his re-election campaign against the old clerical elite, charging them with corruption, luxurious living and running the state for their own benefit rather than that of the people. He particularly targeted Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, an extremely senior leader, and his family. Indeed, during the demonstrations, Rafsanjani?s daughter and four other relatives were arrested, held and then released a day later.

Rafsanjani represents the class of clergy that came to power in 1979. He served as president from 1989-1997, but Ahmadinejad defeated him in 2005. Rafsanjani carries enormous clout within the system as head of the regime?s two most powerful institutions — the Expediency Council, which arbitrates between the Guardian Council and parliament, and the Assembly of Experts, whose powers include oversight of the supreme leader. Forbes has called him one of the wealthiest men in the world. Rafsanjani, in other words, remains at the heart of the post-1979 Iranian establishment.

Ahmadinejad expressly ran his recent presidential campaign against Rafsanjani, using the latter?s family?s vast wealth to discredit Rafsanjani along with many of the senior clerics who dominate the Iranian political scene. It was not the regime as such that he opposed, but the individuals who currently dominate it. Ahmadinejad wants to retain the regime, but he wants to repopulate the leadership councils with clerics who share his populist values and want to revive the ascetic foundations of the regime. The Iranian president constantly contrasts his own modest lifestyle with the opulence of the current religious leadership.

Recognizing the threat Ahmadinejad represented to him personally and to the clerical class he belongs to, Rafsanjani fired back at Ahmadinejad, accusing him of having wrecked the economy. At his side were other powerful members of the regime, including Majlis Speaker Ali Larijani, who has made no secret of his antipathy toward Ahmadinejad and whose family links to the Shiite holy city of Qom give him substantial leverage. The underlying issue was about the kind of people who ought to be leading the clerical establishment. The battlefield was economic: Ahmadinejad?s charges of financial corruption versus charges of economic mismanagement leveled by Rafsanjani and others.

When Ahmadinejad defeated Mir Hossein Mousavi on the night of the election, the clerical elite saw themselves in serious danger. The margin of victory Ahmadinejad claimed might have given him the political clout to challenge their position. Mousavi immediately claimed fraud, and Rafsanjani backed him up. Whatever the motives of those in the streets, the real action was a knife fight between Ahmadinejad and Rafsanjani. By the end of the week, Khamenei decided to end the situation. In essence, he tried to hold things together by ordering the demonstrations to halt while throwing a bone to Rafsanjani and Mousavi by extending a probe into the election irregularities and postponing a partial recount by five days.

The Struggle Within the Regime

The key to understanding the situation in Iran is realizing that the past weeks have seen not an uprising against the regime, but a struggle within the regime. Ahmadinejad is not part of the establishment, but rather has been struggling against it, accusing it of having betrayed the principles of the Islamic Revolution. The post-election unrest in Iran therefore was not a matter of a repressive regime suppressing liberals (as in Prague in 1989), but a struggle between two Islamist factions that are each committed to the regime, but opposed to each other.

The demonstrators certainly included Western-style liberalizing elements, but they also included adherents of senior clerics who wanted to block Ahmadinejad?s re-election. And while Ahmadinejad undoubtedly committed electoral fraud to bulk up his numbers, his ability to commit unlimited fraud was blocked, because very powerful people looking for a chance to bring him down were arrayed against him.

The situation is even more complex because it is not simply a fight between Ahmadinejad and the clerics, but also a fight among the clerical elite regarding perks and privileges — and Ahmadinejad is himself being used within this infighting. The Iranian president?s populism suits the interests of clerics who oppose Rafsanjani; Ahmadinejad is their battering ram. But as Ahmadinejad increases his power, he could turn on his patrons very quickly. In short, the political situation in Iran is extremely volatile, just not for the reason that the media portrayed.

Rafsanjani is an extraordinarily powerful figure in the establishment who clearly sees Ahmadinejad and his faction as a mortal threat. Ahmadinejad?s ability to survive the unified opposition of the clergy, election or not, is not at all certain. But the problem is that there is no unified clergy. The supreme leader is clearly trying to find a new political balance while making it clear that public unrest will not be tolerated. Removing ?public unrest? (i.e., demonstrations) from the tool kits of both sides may take away one of Rafsanjani?s more effective tools. But ultimately, it actually could benefit him. Should the internal politics move against the Iranian president, it would be Ahmadinejad — who has a substantial public following — who would not be able to have his supporters take to the streets.

The View From the West

The question for the rest of the world is simple: Does it matter who wins this fight? We would argue that the policy differences between Ahmadinejad and Rafsanjani are minimal and probably would not affect Iran?s foreign relations. This fight simply isn?t about foreign policy.

Rafsanjani has frequently been held up in the West as a pragmatist who opposes Ahmadinejad?s radicalism. Rafsanjani certainly opposes Ahmadinejad and is happy to portray the Iranian president as harmful to Iran, but it is hard to imagine significant shifts in foreign policy if Rafsanjani?s faction came out on top. Khamenei has approved Iran?s foreign policy under Ahmadinejad, and Khamenei works to maintain broad consensus on policies. Ahmadinejad?s policies were vetted by Khamenei and the system that Rafsanjani is part of. It is possible that Rafsanjani secretly harbors different views, but if he does, anyone predicting what these might be is guessing.

Rafsanjani is a pragmatist in the sense that he systematically has accumulated power and wealth. He seems concerned about the Iranian economy, which is reasonable because he owns a lot of it. Ahmadinejad?s entire charge against him is that Rafsanjani is only interested in his own economic well-being. These political charges notwithstanding, Rafsanjani was part of the 1979 revolution, as were Ahmadinejad and the rest of the political and clerical elite. It would be a massive mistake to think that any leadership elements have abandoned those principles.

When the West looks at Iran, two concerns are expressed. The first relates to the Iranian nuclear program, and the second relates to Iran?s support for terrorists, particularly Hezbollah. Neither Iranian faction is liable to abandon either, because both make geopolitical sense for Iran and give it regional leverage.

Tehran?s primary concern is regime survival, and this has two elements. The first is deterring an attack on Iran, while the second is extending Iran?s reach so that such an attack could be countered. There are U.S. troops on both sides of the Islamic Republic, and the United States has expressed hostility to the regime. The Iranians are envisioning a worst-case scenario, assuming the worst possible U.S. intentions, and this will remain true no matter who runs the government.

We do not believe that Iran is close to obtaining a nuclear weapon, a point we have made frequently. Iran understands that the actual acquisition of a nuclear weapon would lead to immediate U.S. or Israeli attacks. Accordingly, Iran?s ideal position is to be seen as developing nuclear weapons, but not close to having them. This gives Tehran a platform for bargaining without triggering Iran?s destruction, a task at which it has proved sure-footed.

In addition, Iran has maintained capabilities in Iraq and Lebanon. Should the United States or Israel attack, Iran would thus be able to counter by doing everything possible to destabilize Iraq — bogging down U.S. forces there — while simultaneously using Hezbollah?s global reach to carry out terror attacks. After all, Hezbollah is today?s al Qaeda on steroids. The radical Shiite group?s ability, coupled with that of Iranian intelligence, is substantial.

We see no likelihood that any Iranian government would abandon this two-pronged strategy without substantial guarantees and concessions from the West. Those would have to include guarantees of noninterference in Iranian affairs. Obama, of course, has been aware of this bedrock condition, which is why he went out of his way before the election to assure Khamenei in a letter that the United States had no intention of interfering.

Though Iran did not hesitate to lash out at CNN?s coverage of the protests, the Iranians know that the U.S. government doesn?t control CNN?s coverage. But Tehran takes a slightly different view of the BBC. The Iranians saw the depiction of the demonstrations as a democratic uprising against a repressive regime as a deliberate attempt by British state-run media to inflame the situation. This allowed the Iranians to vigorously blame some foreigner for the unrest without making the United States the primary villain.

But these minor atmospherics aside, we would make three points. First, there was no democratic uprising of any significance in Iran. Second, there is a major political crisis within the Iranian political elite, the outcome of which probably tilts toward Ahmadinejad but remains uncertain. Third, there will be no change in the substance of Iran?s foreign policy, regardless of the outcome of this fight. The fantasy of a democratic revolution overthrowing the Islamic Republic — and thus solving everyone?s foreign policy problems a la the 1991 Soviet collapse — has passed.

That means that Obama, as the primary player in Iranian foreign affairs, must now define an Iran policy — particularly given Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak?s meeting in Washington with U.S. Middle East envoy George Mitchell this Monday. Obama has said that nothing that has happened in Iran makes dialogue impossible, but opening dialogue is easier said than done. The Republicans consistently have opposed an opening to Iran; now they are joined by Democrats, who oppose dialogue with nations they regard as human rights violators. Obama still has room for maneuver, but it is not clear where he thinks he is maneuvering. The Iranians have consistently rejected dialogue if it involves any preconditions. But given the events of the past weeks, and the perceptions about them that have now been locked into the public mind, Obama isn?t going to be able to make many concessions.

It would appear to us that in this, as in many other things, Obama will be following the Bush strategy — namely, criticizing Iran without actually doing anything about it. And so he goes to Moscow more aware than ever that Russia could cause the United States a great deal of pain if it proceeded with weapons transfers to Iran, a country locked in a political crisis and unlikely to emerge from it in a pleasant state of mind.
 
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Le Zookeeper    A little tip Panther before you embarras urself again   7/4/2009 2:59:36 AM
The author of ur article wrote this--
"The Shi'a will be Accepted by the Christians More Quickly than the Sufi or the Wahhabi Philosophy "
 
This is Ignormus MAXIMUS. I know Shia's , Sufis, and Sunnis. The Sufis are the mildest and even have sufi music, the Shia's are the ones that go about once a year beating  themselves and their kids till they bled- whats that called self-something, I mean even the kids bleed from their skulls and backs. The Sunnis(the Wahabi subsect the most extreme of theSunnis is Osama's sect and they are no better) well they are the majority of Moslems that we identify with. So if this author had a clue about Islamic sects it would be " None of the Moslem sects would be acceptable by the Christians perhaps the Sufis are the easiest, the Sunnis well just toss a coin if he is on the same flight as you , and the SHias
just mind their own business until u buttin then they grab ur embassy" Now the secular Moslems (all of them) are the ones Christians can deal with and there are bunch in the West but probaly less than 1% of the billion or so moslems worldwide.
 
I hope that clears out the various Islamic sects.
 
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Panther       7/4/2009 5:57:12 AM

The author of ur article wrote this--

"The Shi'a will be Accepted by the Christians More Quickly than the Sufi or the Wahhabi Philosophy "

 

This is Ignormus MAXIMUS. I know Shia's , Sufis, and Sunnis. The Sufis are the mildest and even have sufi music, the Shia's are the ones that go about once a year beating  themselves and their kids till they bled- whats that called self-something, I mean even the kids bleed from their skulls and backs. The Sunnis(the Wahabi subsect the most extreme of theSunnis is Osama's sect and they are no better) well they are the majority of Moslems that we identify with. So if this author had a clue about Islamic sects it would be " None of the Moslem sects would be acceptable by the Christians perhaps the Sufis are the easiest, the Sunnis well just toss a coin if he is on the same flight as you , and the SHias

just mind their own business until u buttin then they grab ur embassy" Now the secular Moslems (all of them) are the ones Christians can deal with and there are bunch in the West but probaly less than 1% of the billion or so moslems worldwide.

 

I hope that clears out the various Islamic sects.


I guess you are not familiar with the website memri? If not, then i suggest you do so! An Islamic religous leader being ignorant of his own religon?! Do you not find that especially scary? Do you not see the ease with which the muslim masses are manipulated? 


What ever anyone says, Mark Steyn was right... we are ignoring the truth at our own peril!
 
 
By the way... i will over look the subtle insult, because you really don't know me as of yet! Once you do... then perhaps you might realize...
 
 
 
 you were right after all?   ;-)
 
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Panther       7/4/2009 6:26:06 AM




So support Moussavi and you support Ayatollah Khomeini's gang, support Ahmedinijabad and support the new gang. (under Ayotollah Khameni) How do you tell the difference between an Iranian liberal and conservative Ayatollah  Khomeini and Ayatollah Khameini? Khameini and Khomeni even sound the same. And Americans and Brits are as usual not really cool with  the Iranian masses. Obama did the right thing. Nothing.


Oops, this didn't get posted the first time.
 
 I like to think that i am decently aware of Persian pride in their identity and culture,  that is also considering that Persian and Arabs have never gotten along so swimmingly either! I'm also aware of both parties constant barrage of insults towards the west. But, if Obama is going too keep dragging us into this, so called reaching his peaceful hand out to any Iranian-mullah-ran government, then i hope to hell he knows what he is doing and is going too choose wisely which course is the correct one in the long term, seeing that it will effect us all for decades too come!? Much like Jimmy Carter's screwball antics giving life to these bunch of nutcase mullahs, by doing nothing! Well, that not true. He did do something by blaming us for it! Sure successive Presidents did not help the situation much either.
 
By the way, are we really sure Mr. Obama is doing the right thing, by doing nothing? Doing nothing is what got us here in the first place!
 
Am i being sacrereligious enough yet?
 
 
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Le Zookeeper    Panther   7/4/2009 12:06:30 PM
Whatever the author's qualification let me assure you Sufism is the mildest form of Islam, Shia and Wahabi(extreme Sunni) the most extreme, Sunni's are extreme enough also. And you are absolutely unaware of Iranian culture if you posted what you did. I am not trying to insult you here, considering the Shah of Iran was also out of touch with the Iranian masses and got the boot. Iran is a conservative religious country mainly in the regions outside Tehran, thats why Ahmednijabad WON!! The elections were not fraudulent. This mini revolt is an internal power grab for money and influence between Rafsanjani and Ahmednijabad, US & UK can score no extra points either way.
 
And Iran Shia modern day evolved from eradication of fire worshippers Zoroastrians who were convered killed and expelled ( they moved to India and one of the families run the biggest software outsourcing company TATA)- thats the brief history of religion in Iran. Freddie Mercury of Queen too was of Zoroastrian descent_ they are truly the modern Iranians now mostly in Mumbai, London, & Toronto). The Iranian Shias u see demonstarting in Universities everywhere simply have no modernism?? in them, Shia Islam destroyed it.
 
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Photon       7/14/2009 3:43:32 AM

Whatever the author's qualification let me assure you Sufism is the mildest form of Islam, Shia and Wahabi(extreme Sunni) the most extreme, Sunni's are extreme enough also. And you are absolutely unaware of Iranian culture if you posted what you did. I am not trying to insult you here, considering the Shah of Iran was also out of touch with the Iranian masses and got the boot. Iran is a conservative religious country mainly in the regions outside Tehran, thats why Ahmednijabad WON!!
The elections were not fraudulent. This mini revolt is an internal power grab for money and influence between Rafsanjani and Ahmednijabad, US & UK can score no extra points either way.

 

And Iran Shia modern day evolved from eradication of fire worshippers Zoroastrians who were convered killed and expelled ( they moved to India and one of the families run the biggest software outsourcing company TATA)- thats the brief history of religion in Iran. Freddie Mercury of Queen too was of Zoroastrian descent_ they are truly the modern Iranians now mostly in Mumbai, London, & Toronto). The Iranian Shias u see demonstarting in Universities everywhere simply have no modernism?? in them, Shia Islam destroyed it.

Excellent point.  I would also add that Iran 2009 is not Romania 1989:  One thing that turned out to be fatal for Ceaucescu was his own military refused to shoot civilians and instead switched sides and executed him instead.  Nothing like that exists in Iran right now.  No such threat lingers around the neck of Ahmadinejad nor Rafsanjani nor other prominent clerics and politicians.
 
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Wicked Chinchilla       7/14/2009 7:49:40 AM
You really dont get it do you panther? 
 
The point was NOT to talk to the Iranians.  The U.S. knows the Iranians will most likely not budge on anything we would negoitate them with and that talking with them will in all likelihood be a complete waste of time.  The point of extending our hand is for that very reason.  All this time the U.S. was demonized about asking for preconditions, and "trying to enforce our will" on their internal policies.  Well, given that we extended our hand, knowing it will get slapped away, the ball is in their court.  Guess who the bad guy is again?  Not us. 
 
We and the Iranians have always known the score.  We just stopped playing into their game plan.  Thats also why the U.S. response (well, sort of non-response) to the revolution over there is also the correct action.  ANY type of move we make will simply enable them to cast the revolution as an American interference into an internal struggle.  This will alienate them further inside their own country and within the muslim world.  By keeping a platform of non-involvement and letting things play out it keeps all the attention, criticism, and responsibility inside Iran and thus there is no interfereing "Great Devil" undermining the legitimacy the revolution itself or any type of consequences that arise from it. 
 
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