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Subject: Binghamton massacre carried out by laid-off IBM'er. The solution? An illegal alien amnesty.
Zhang Fei    4/4/2009 12:02:05 AM
Because like Space Invaders, it ain't over until the aliens win. link Today another mass murder was carried out against innocent people in a public setting - this time in a immigration center in Binghamton, NY. And while the identity of the shooter has not been officially announced yet, the web is abuzz with unconfirmed reports that his name was Jiverly Voong (a.k.a. Linh Phat Voong), a Vietnamese immigrant who had just lost his job at IBM in a recent wave of layoffs at the company. Voong was apparently known to the staff of the American Civic Center where the shooting took place. According to the Associated Press his family said he had been in this country 28 years and had citizenship. As this drama plays out, and assuming Voong is confirmed as the gunman, this brings up an issue that should be of great concern to immigrant advocates here in Boston. That is, if it turns out that Voong was willing to kill fellow immigrants in response to his layoff from IBM - a layoff that was part of a move by IBM to offshore production to countries with cheaper labor costs like India - then this kind of violence could be merely the first of many such incidents to come. These are difficult times for working families in the U.S. - with official federal unemployment numbers shooting up to 8.3 percent in March, as employers cut 663,000 jobs. And Boston is hardly immune to the global financial meltdown, as we've documented in these pages over and over again. Immigrants, most of whom have already left their countries-of-origin as economic refugees looking for jobs, are among the most vulnerable groups as unemployment figures rise. Add the steady drumbeat of anti-immigrant hysteria - fed to a huge public by ostensibly respectable news outlets like CNN nightly on shows like Lou Dobbs Tonight - to growing economic hardship suffered by the once-solid American middle class, and we've got the makings of a potential disaster for immigrants and organizations that support immigrants. Ironically, at the same time, the election of Pres. Barrack Obama has provided some real openings for improvements in a heretofore irrational U.S. immigration policy. So we do not mean to suggest that immigrants - whose human rights Open Media Boston staunchly defends, as we staunchly defend the rights of all working families - should hide their heads in the sand at this critical moment because some unkind person decided to commit a ... shall we say ... externalized suicide. We are, however, sounding a note of caution that Boston is hardly immune to this kind of violence. And we're not just talking about ongoing gang shootings either, which already take more than their fair share of innocent lives every year. We're thinking more about the abortion clinic shootings in Brookline several years ago. Another event that combined a victimized constituency, earnest advocates, a serious lack of security, and the crazed U.S. gun culture into a horrid outcome like the one we saw today. Open Media Boston is concerned that this latest outrage energize five responses from people of good conscience. First, people should do everything they can to help fight for a progressive immigration policy that stops criminalizing huge groups of people merely because they want to live and work in the U.S. Second, as part of the first response, it would be really helpful if everyone took some time - at least once a week - to do battle with the nativist lobby in media and elsewhere in society. Write angry emails about unfair unbalanced anti-immigrant programming on networks like CNN, challenge nativists when they appear in your community, work with immigrant advocates to hold public forums and rallies, and lobby your politicians in support of immigrant rights. Third, support the labor movement wherever you can. Help rebuild a nation that respects and defends labor rights as human rights in the U.S. and around the world - as one of the best possible solutions to corporate globalization and the economic war of all against all that it has caused. Join a union if possible, and help start one if there's not one at your workplace. Fourth, fully fund community mental health programs that have been limping along since privatization and deinstitutionalization of the mental health sector began in the 1980s. This reform alone would do a hell of a lot to stop people from thinking it might be a good idea to get some guns and go blow away a lot of random folks before committing the suicide that was the ultimate aim of their penultimate brutal gesture. Fifth, and finally, let's get some European-style strong gun control laws enacted on a federal level. People just don't need to be walking around with firearms on a day-to-day basis. And it should be really hard to get them at all times. If we can do that, we're going to limit the ability of angry individuals to kill lots of other people with easily available handguns and rifles. If l
 
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warpig       4/4/2009 8:32:09 PM
Here's my prediction for the gun-grabbers reaction to this incident and the other recent one in Pittsburgh cited in the latest article posted by Zhang Fei:
 
Stand by for calls for Congress to ban sale, transfer, possession, etc. of ballistic protection vests.  You see, if there are no scary objects in the hands of wackos, then wackos can't hurt you.  Therefore, ban the possession of scary objects by law-abiding citizens and hope that this will manage to prevent some wackos from ever getting a hold of any scary objects....
 
After all, Wong bought his pistols ten years ago.  If somehow someone had "done the right thing with their information about Wong starting to look like a wacko" (to paraphrase one police chief in that article) during the last few years, then I'm sure that sale ten years ago would have been prevented and Wong would have been incapable of obtaining similar pistols anywhere else, and also would not have been able to obtain and wear ballistic armor.  Ergo, no horrific mass murder.  Although apparently he forgot to by a ballistic balaclava to cover the side of his head that he shot himself in.
 
 
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sentinel28a       4/5/2009 6:36:53 PM




Wow.  I haven't read something that insipid since the last time John Kerry opened his mouth.

 

(Yes, this is me being sarcastic.)   





Can I take this as a clear indication that you NEVER watch any televised coverage of congress?


Pretty much, yeah.  The mere chance of seeing Pelosi, Reid, and/or Barney Frank would cause severe gastric distress, so I avoid that channel. 
Except for Prime Minister's Questions.  I love that show. 

 
 
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ArtyEngineer    timon   4/5/2009 6:52:26 PM

I don't want to say that this is a widespread phenomenon, but here's what happened at the last two programming jobs I had. We wrote the system (or extensively modified the purchased ERP). We got it running, got it fast and got it dependable. These tasks took in-depth knowledge of the OS, hardware, DBMS, and the business itself. All that notwithstanding, we were laid off and replaced by contract Indian programmers (who were paid 50% of our salary, and only had green cards as long as they were employed).

 

As you might imagine, I am not a fan of "technical expert" visa programs.   


Well as a holder of a E-1 "Technical Expert" visa I beg to differ ;)  You are also wrong in your calling this a "Green Card" they are 2 very different things.  What mechanism would you propose to allow us "technical specialists" to live and work in the US?
 
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YelliChink       4/5/2009 9:36:31 PM

Well as a holder of a E-1 "Technical Expert" visa I beg to differ ;)  You are also wrong in your calling this a "Green Card" they are 2 very different things.  What mechanism would you propose to allow us "technical specialists" to live and work in the US?


Just my $0.02.
 
Exploitive hiring is too difficult to resist for employers. If those Indian programmers were required to be paid exactly the same to timon,  then this kind of thing won't happen in the US. Employers would simply close down the whole US branch and reopen it in Mumbai or Shanghai.
 
The unfortunate reality is that now is not a good time for foreigners to seek jobs in the US. When the economy and job market are expanding, nobody would care coming foreigners taking some jobs. Laid-off Americans can find better jobs with even higher payment in a strong bull market. This is not the case at the moment, when unemployment rate rise to 8.5%. The immediate knee-jerk response to foreign workers is not only understandable, but also required to protect benefit for citizens.
 
BTW, Arty, I don't think American employers will pay 50% of the American engineer they just laid off to hire an English one. That simply won't happen in general. I doubt that they pay 50% to Russians, Poles or Czechs, but it's always Indian and Chinese got highly reduced payment. Chinese were thrown out from the US in 1882 for the very same reason. The ultimate solution might not be asking government, which apparently favors corporate intersts, to do something, but to teach Chinese and Indians how to strike.
 
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Zhang Fei       4/5/2009 9:39:02 PM
I find it is amusing the the police chief... is talking about failure and cowardice when the police failed to enter the facility for 90 minutes despite having the advantage of numbers, training and firepower, until all but one of the wounded were dead:
 The police chief said Wong's suicide was his final act of failure.

Police believe Wong planned to go out in a blaze of glory in a gunfight with cops, but got cold feet when he heard sirens and put a bullet between his eyes.

"He must have been a coward," Zikuski said.

"We speculate that when he heard the sirens, he decided to end his own life. He was heavily armed, had a lot of ammunition on him and, thank God, before more lives were lost, that he decided to do that."

 
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stbretnco       4/5/2009 11:38:55 PM
http://www.pressconnects.com/article/20090405/NEWS01/90405022
 
According to the local paper, your timeline is off. Of course, with everyone trying to get in on the bloodshed and get a  piece of it into their pub/website before anyone else, I'm not surprised. Screw accuracy, we just gots to get it up. We'll fix the misinformation later with a retraction buried in the middle of page 90.
 
It wasn't 90 minutes, it was 45 to enter the building, and given the nature of the incident the local police may have been given a hold order by the NY State police.
 
Again, far to early to know accurately what in hell happened.
 
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Zhang Fei       4/6/2009 3:07:33 PM
LA cop... on failure and cowardice:
 
Mark Steyn echoes the frustration expressed by many at the failure of some police officers to react decisively to an incident of ongoing violence. He cites a news story on the mass killing in Binghamton, New York, that told of officers arriving within two minutes of receiving the first call, but waiting ?for about an hour before entering the building to make sure it was safe for officers.?

?What?s the point of calling 911, Mark asks, ?if they arrive within two minutes and then sit outside for the rest of the day to ?make sure it?s safe???

The question is reminiscent of the Columbine massacre that occurred ten years ago this month outside Denver. The delay in deploying officers into the school led to changes in policy in my own Los Angeles Police Department and in other agencies across the country. In Los Angeles, officers responding to reports of shots fired within a school, a business, or what have you, must determine if they are facing an ?active shooter? or a ?barricaded suspect.? In the case of the former, the first four officers on the scene are obliged to make entry, locate the shooter, and end his aggression. In the case of a barricaded suspect, it is assumed that he has no access to victims inside, allowing the officers time to take whatever actions are needed to apprehend him. If this involves waiting outside for the suspect to surrender or fall asleep, so be it.

But in a situation where, as in Binghamton, a suspect is known to have shot people, an hour?s delay in making entry strikes me as grossly excessive. Even if the gunfire had ceased, the people already wounded deserved an all-out effort to provide them with medical care as quickly as possible. I expect we?ll be learning that some of the victims bled to death while waiting for the help that came too late. Knowing how police departments function as I do, I have no doubt that there were officers ready and willing to enter the building within minutes but were prevented from doing so by superiors who, in ordinary circumstances, make no decisions weightier than selecting which desk tray to place a piece of paper in. These people had to be prodded from their desks when the trouble started, and their presence at the scene merely clogged up the decision-making process.
 
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ArtyEngineer       4/6/2009 5:40:29 PM

LA cop... on failure and cowardice:



 

Mark Steyn echoes the frustration expressed by many at the failure of some police officers to react decisively to an incident of ongoing violence. He cites a news story on the mass killing in Binghamton, New York, that told of officers arriving within two minutes of receiving the first call, but waiting ?for about an hour before entering the building to make sure it was safe for officers.?



?What?s the point of calling 911, Mark asks, ?if they arrive within two minutes and then sit outside for the rest of the day to ?make sure it?s safe???



The question is reminiscent of the Columbine massacre that occurred ten years ago this month outside Denver. The delay in deploying officers into the school led to changes in policy in my own Los Angeles Police Department and in other agencies across the country. In Los Angeles, officers responding to reports of shots fired within a school, a business, or what have you, must determine if they are facing an ?active shooter? or a ?barricaded suspect.? In the case of the former, the first four officers on the scene are obliged to make entry, locate the shooter, and end his aggression. In the case of a barricaded suspect, it is assumed that he has no access to victims inside, allowing the officers time to take whatever actions are needed to apprehend him. If this involves waiting outside for the suspect to surrender or fall asleep, so be it.



But in a situation where, as in Binghamton, a suspect is known to have shot people, an hour?s delay in making entry strikes me as grossly excessive. Even if the gunfire had ceased, the people already wounded deserved an all-out effort to provide them with medical care as quickly as possible. I expect we?ll be learning that some of the victims bled to death while waiting for the help that came too late. Knowing how police departments function as I do, I have no doubt that there were officers ready and willing to enter the building within minutes but were prevented from doing so by superiors who, in ordinary circumstances, make no decisions weightier than selecting which desk tray to place a piece of paper in. These people had to be prodded from their desks when the trouble started, and their presence at the scene merely clogged up the decision-making process.
I think many LEO's today feel they are in a no win situation.  Suppose they had went in hard and fast and took the guy out.  Im sure there would be a certain section of the public, media and certain "Civil Liberties" groups whinging on about "Why was no attempt made to negotiate, blah blah blah etc etc etc!!!!  Just my 0.02. 
Regards
 
Arty

 
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