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Subject: FYI- did u know 28 Americans die daily due to gun violence
Necromancer    3/31/2009 2:41:30 AM
Gun control overdue!!!
 
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stbretnco       4/3/2009 11:30:49 PM
For starters, could you assholes at least let the police clear the area and figure out what in hell happened before you start using an incident to score political points?
 
I work less than a mile from where today's incident occured, the poilce are still there, streets are still closed off, and it is absolutely abhorrent that you idiots can't even wait for the blood to be cleaned up before you start this crap.
 
Some things that the news won't tell you about Binghamton NY, or the area where the shooting took place:
 
Broome County, NY WILL NOT issue a pistol permit for self defense. PERIOD. The only permits issued for anyone other than police are hunting and target. The Sherrif slows down even that process so that it takes almost a year and close to $500 to get even that lmiited permit. In other words, someone carrying a weapon anywhere other than to the woods for hunting or to a target range is going to jail for a year.
 
The area which the shooting took place in is largely populated by immigrants, who aren't exactly prone to getting the permits required to own a firearm. It is also a very poor urban area, which takes the probability of someone owning a handgun or other weapon for self defense even lower. In other words, the center was a soft target.
 
As far as details of the incident goes, the police haven't figured it out. You fools might want to take a step back and let the police figure out what happened before you start preaching.
 
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Aussiegunneragain    stbretnco   4/4/2009 7:10:14 AM
Oh please, what is there for the police to work out? Another American popped a fuse and wasted 9 of his fellow citizens because he had easy access to firearms, just like was the case in the other 5 killings over the last six months. Sure, none of his fellow citizens could own a firearm for self defence in NY state, but what about the killings in North Carolina? South Carolina? Alabama? All of those are "shall issue" states and that didn't save anybody in those instances. As for immigrant centre being a soft target because people couldn't have afforded guns even if they were allowed to, isn't that a good reason to make access to handguns more difficult? Apparently you only care about people who can carry a gun and look after themselves and screw the immigrants or the old folks in the Carolina nursing home who can't afford or handle one.
 
Anyway, you can call me an asshole and accuse me of political point scoring if you like. My response is that if you gave as much of a damn about your fellow citizens as you would have us believe that you do, you would be trying to achieve some good out of the incident while it is fresh in people's minds like I am.
 
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Aussiegunneragain    Evilfishy    4/4/2009 7:24:33 AM
Thankyou, I couldn't have come up with a better argument for why I am right than the one that you just provided. By admitting that you are sitting in front of your computer with a loaded and cocked gun, whilst protesting about gun ownership being your right and damn the consequences for anybody else, you demonstrate to all of us that there are some folks for whom gun ownership is just too big a responsibility. Your argument that you would like gun ownership to be like automobile registration because it would prevent people having to have background checks, just takes the cake. Do you want to make it even easier for criminals to get hold of a gun? At least the majority of the people here that I disagree with argue their point out of a genuine belief that relaxed gun laws lead to a safter society. In contrast you don't give a damn about anything but your "right" to play with your dangerous toys. Unbelievable.
 
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stbretnco    AG   4/4/2009 9:19:55 AM
There have been more corrections to the story floating on the wire than there have been accurate reports. 
 
Only a callous, uncaring jackass would use a story like this to score political points while the bodies are still being collected.
 
He used a car to block everyone into the center....ban cars?
 
He used a briefcase......ban them?
 
Ban green shirts?
 
Piss off, AG. you're in the same category as herc........an absolute tosser.
 
 
 
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warpig       4/4/2009 10:41:44 AM

There have been more corrections to the story floating on the wire than there have been accurate reports. 

 

Only a callous, uncaring jackass would use a story like this to score political points while the bodies are still being collected.

 

He used a car to block everyone into the center....ban cars?


 

He used a briefcase......ban them?

 

Ban green shirts?


 

Piss off, AG. you're in the same category as herc........an absolute tosser.


 

 



 
Well said, Sgt and EF.  Ditto.  Here in America, the proper test is not "need," and the proper government is not our nanny.  Arguments revolving around "greater good," "public safety," etc., should take a back seat to rights of those who are not violating anyone else's rights.  Legislation by anecdote is pathetic, and punishes those who have never and statistically speaking will never commit a similar crime.  Prior restraint on our rights, whether regarding firearms or anything else, should not be tolerated.  If you don't like that, shove it, and just be happy you live in a country that doesn't have the same fundamental political construction as ours does.
 
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RockyMTNClimber    Research   4/4/2009 11:46:59 AM
We know that outlawing guns causes increases in crimes of murder, assault, and assault by firearm. Statistics in Australia, UK, Canada, and the USA all bear this out.
 
Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement ht***tp://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=161637

John R. Lott Jr....
University of Maryland Foundation, University of Maryland

William M. Landes ...
University of Chicago Law School; National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER)


April 1999

University of Chicago Law Scho...

Abstract:     
Few events obtain the same instant worldwide news coverage as multiple victim public shootings. These crimes allow us to study the alternative methods used to kill a large number of people (e.g., shootings versus bombings), marginal deterrence and the severity of the crime, substitutability of penalties, private versus public methods of deterrence and incapacitation, and whether attacks produce copycats. Yet, economists have not studied this phenomenon. Our results are surprising and dramatic. While arrest or conviction rates and the death penalty reduce normal murder rates, our results find that the only policy factor to influence multiple victim public shootings is the passage of concealed handgun laws. We explain why public shootings are more sensitive than other violent crimes to concealed handguns, why the laws reduce both the number of shootings as well as their severity, and why other penalties like executions have differential deterrent effects depending upon the type of murder.
 
 
h***ttp://www.econjournalwatch.org/pdf/MoodyMarvellCommentSeptember2008.pdf

The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws

Econ Journal Watch,

Volume 5, Number 3,

September 2008, pp 269-293.

Editor?s Note: Professors Ian Ayres and John J. Donohue have been invited to reply to this

article. Their analysis will appear in the January 2009 issue of the journal.

Summ ary and Conclusion

Many articles have been published finding that shall-issue laws reduce crime. Only one article, by Ayres and Donohue who employ a model that combines a dummy variable with a post-law trend, claims to find that shall-issue laws increase crime. However, the only way that they can produce the result that shall-issue laws increase crime is to confine the span of analysis to five years. We show, using their own estimates, that if they had extended their analysis by one more year, they would have concluded that these laws reduce crime. Since most states with shall

 
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EvilFishy       4/4/2009 2:41:55 PM
---Aussiegunneragain---Thankyou, I couldn't have come up with a better argument for why I am right than the one that you just provided.---

Me peaceably and responsibly owning a firearm is a good argument proving you are right that private citizens can be neither peaceable nor responsible with firearms and therefore should be denied the right to do so?   Did you think before you said that?

---Aussiegunneragain---By admitting that you are sitting in front of your computer with a loaded and cocked gun, whilst protesting about gun ownership being your right and damn the consequences for anybody else, you demonstrate to all of us that there are some folks for whom gun ownership is just too big a responsibility.---

A few things here boyo:

First and foremost: DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH! The 92sf was NOT COCKED. I said there were 15 rounds in the magazine and one in the pipe. However, I did NOT SAY IT WAS COCKED.

Here are my words verbatim:---I have a Beretta 92 Sf sitting on my table in front of me. It is loaded. The magazine is loaded with 15 rounds and there is a round in the chamber.---

In fact, the 92sf/M9 is probably one of the SAFEST automatic pistols around. Not only does it have an EXTERNAL SAFETY in a place so awkward that you have to TRY to disengage it (I happen to like this feature) but it has an INTERNAL SAFETY mechanism that prevents the firing pin engaging the primer regardless of whether or not the weapon drops and falls muzzle first or hammer first so long as the trigger is not being pulled.

Both of these safety mechanisms are additional to the PRIMARY SAFETY feature which is my TRIGGER FINGER: it never touches the trigger of the loaded weapon unless and until I want to destroy whatever the firearm is pointing at.

Oh and I posted that last night. The 92sf is STLL LOADED and no babies, kittens, or old women have died or been butchered because it is loaded.

Furthermore, I have lived my entire LIFE with firearms and have never shot anybody nor have I ever had a negligent discharge. EVER.

 ---Aussiegunneragain---Your argument that you would like gun ownership to be like automobile registration because it would prevent people having to have background checks, just takes the cake.---

When did I make that argument? Since you have a difficulty reading simple sentences spaced generously about the page I will sum up my previous argument for you: AUTOMOBILES are LESS regulated than FIREARMS and AUTOMOBILES are involved in more fatalities in the USA than FIREARMS.

Do you understand that now?

---Aussiegunneragain---Do you want to make it even easier for criminals to get hold of a gun?---

You do realize that a criminal, BY DEFINITON, is going to BREAK THE LAW right?

That is what makes them a criminal: they break the law. That is the nature of the word. They are criminals because they engage in unlawful/criminal/illicit behavior.

They ARE criminals BECAUSE they break the law.

It stands to reason that if they will break ONE LAW, they certainly will break any other law that you may think stands in their way from obtaining a firearm especially if they want a firearm, or any weapon or tool, to complete their task at hand.

How you can possibly think that PASSING A LAW will in any way hinder people who do not FOLLOW THE LAW is beyond my comprehension.

---Aussiegunneragain---At least the majority of the people here that I disagree with argue their point out of a genuine belief that relaxed gun laws lead to a safter society.---

My society is quite safe because I have a 92sf loaded and sitting on my table. Crime is almost unheard of in my little town and just about everybody around here, at least the ones I know, are armed.
It is little wonder that people think twice before breaking and entering around here.   My 92sf is the LEAST of their worries at that point.

---Aussiegunneragain---In contrast you don't give a damn about anything but your "right" to play with your dangerous toys. Unbelievable.---

Well at least you got SOMETHING correct here! I do not give a damn about anything but MY RIGHTS because nobody is going to care about MY RIGHTS if I DO NOT CARE ABOUT MY RIGHTS.   Hell, if you had my way, I would not have MY RIGHTS so you prove my point for me!

That dangerous toy, is no more dangerous than the Honda sitting out in the car park or the multitude of drafting equipment I use to build models (whereas others use them to hijack airplanes).

Perhaps I should give them up as well

 
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CJH       4/4/2009 9:36:41 PM
 
Proverbs 26:4
Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
         Or you will also be like him.
 
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Zerbrechen    Gun Control   4/4/2009 9:43:12 PM
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
 
-F. Nietzsche
 
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EvilFishy       4/4/2009 9:44:59 PM

You can always count on Proverbs to be, well, Proverbs.

Considering the topic at hand, my personal favorite would have to be Romans 1:22: --Professing to be wise they became fools.---

 
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