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Subject: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?
Jimme    3/14/2009 2:05:41 AM
Could marijuana be the answer to the economic misery facing California? Democratic state assemblyman Tom Ammiano thinks so. Ammiano introduced legislation last month that would legalize pot and allow the state to regulate and tax its sale - a move that could mean billions of dollars for the cash-strapped state. Pot is, after all, California's biggest cash crop, responsible for $14 billion a year in sales, dwarfing the state's second largest agricultural commodity - milk and cream - which brings in $7.3 billion a year, according to the most recent USDA statistics. The state's tax collectors estimate the bill would bring in about $1.3 billion a year in much needed revenue, offsetting some of the billions of dollars in service cuts and spending reductions outlined in the recently approved state budget. "The state of California is in a very, very precipitous economic plight. It's in the toilet," says Ammiano. "It looks very, very bleak, with layoffs and foreclosures, and schools closing or trying to operate four days a week. We have one of the highest rates of unemployment we've ever had. With any revenue ideas, people say you have to think outside the box, you have to be creative, and I feel that the issue of the decriminalization, regulation and taxation of marijuana fits that bill. It's not new, the idea has been around, and the political will may in fact be there to make something happen." (See pictures of stoner cinema.) Ammiano may be right. A few days after he introduced the bill, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder announced that states should be able to make their own rules for medical marijuana and that federal raids on pot dispensaries in California would cease. The move signaled a softening of the hard-line approach to medicinal pot use previous Administrations have taken. The nomination of Gil Kerlikowske as the head of the Office of National Drug Control Policy may also signal a softer federal line on marijuana. If he is confirmed as the so-called drug czar, Kerlikowske will take with him experience as police chief of Seattle, where he made it clear that going after people for possessing marijuana was not a priority for his force. (See a story about the grass-roots marijuana war in California.) In 1996 California became one of the first states in the nation to legalize medical marijuana. Currently, $200 million in medical-marijuana sales are subject to sales tax. If passed, the Marijuana Control, Regulation and Education Act (AB 390) would give California control of pot in a manner similar to that of alcohol while prohibiting its purchase by citizens under age 21. (The bill has been referred to the California state assembly's public-safety and health committees; Ammiano says it could take up to a year before it comes to a vote for passage.) State revenues would be derived from a $50-per-oz. levy on retail sales of marijuana and sales taxes. By adopting the law, California could become a model for other states. As Ammiano put it, "How California goes, the country goes." Despite the need for the projected revenue, opponents say legalizing pot would only add to social woes. "The last thing we need is yet another mind-altering substance to be legalized," says John Lovell, lobbyist for the California Peace Officers' Association. "We have enough problems with alcohol and abuse of pharmaceutical products. Do we really need to add yet another mind-altering substance to the array?" Lovell says the easy availability of the drug would lead to a surge in its use, much as happened when alcohol was allowed to be sold in venues other than liquor stores in some states. (Read why Dr. Sanjay Gupta is against decriminalizing pot.) Joel W. Hay, professor of pharmaceutical economics at USC, also foresees harm if the bill passes. "Marijuana is a drug that clouds people's judgment. It affects their ability to concentrate and react, and it certainly has impacts on third parties," says Hay, who has written on the societal costs of drug abuse. "It's one more drug that will add to the toll on society. All we have to do is look at the two legalized drugs, tobacco and alcohol, and look at the carnage that they've caused. [Marijuana] is a dangerous drug, and it causes bad outcomes for both the people who use it and for the people who are in their way at work or other activities." He adds, "There are probably some responsible people who can handle marijuana, but there are lots of people who can't, and it has an enormous negative impact on them, their family and loved ones." (See pictures of Mexico's drug wars.) In response, retired Orange County Superior Court Judge James Gray, a longtime proponent of legalization, estimates that legalizing pot and thus ceasing to arrest, prosecute and imprison nonviolent offenders could save the state $1 billion a year. "We couldn't make this drug any more available if we tried," he says. "Not only do we have those problems, along with glamorizing it by making it illegal, but w
 
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Jimme       3/15/2009 3:12:12 AM

This is something I have advocated for some time now. I think it is time to end the prohibition on Weed and stop kidding ourselves. Fact of the matter is if it were legalized almost none of its usage would change. People who smoke it would still smoke it and those who don't won't. It would actually make it harder for minors to buy and at least assure users that what they are smoking is legitimate and not sprayed with chemicals or laced with angel dust.



Do you really believe this?  Many people do not use drugs for the simple reason that they are illegal, and these people either do not want to break the law to get high or fear the consequences of getting caught.  It only stands to reason that if you legalized marijuana more people would try it, and those that use it only occasionally may use it more often.  A lot of people that smoke pot dismiss this offhand, but I believe that is because a lot of the people in their social circles either smoke pot recreationally or have very liberal attitudes about it.  For the most part, your average citizen is pretty much law abiding.  If you legalize drugs those people will be able to use recreational drugs without violating the law, and legalizing marijuana would remove much of the stigma attached to it.  Judging by the number of teenagers I see smoking cigarettes, I am at a loss to see how legalizing pot would make it harder for minors to buy it.

Actually yes i do believe this. Anyone that has ever been curious about smoking weed has already done so, and they either like it or they don't. The current laws are almost no deterant at all. No one is going to all of a sudden start smoking more either because they smoke has much or has little as they desire has it is. making it legal will not make it any easier to buy, its already easy enough as it is.

I personally smoke, not like i used to but when i'm winding down a busy day it works wonders. The best part is that unlike drinking I dont have to worry about a hang over the next day and actually wake up feeling refreshed.



Sounds great to me, and will probably be a advertising selling point for marijuana dealers were it legalized.  Hell, that little tidbit alone would entice a lot of people to give it a try, and once it's legal and you can buy it at the local head shop without running the risk of going to jail or paying a fine, why not? 

 
Well my thoughts exactly, why not? marijuana IS NOT DANGEROUS PERIOD!!! Sure the smoking part might be but the vast majority of people who smoke weed smoke cigarettes anyways so not much change there. Put a warning label on it and call it a day. So if some one like me who is not a big drink and suffers severe hang overs after even the lightest drinking wants to unwind then I have to be shit out of luck? Who the hell is the government to tell me I can't smoke something i enjoy that harms no one. Why should i be labeled a criminal?


All talk about gateway drugs are nonsense and irrelevant since it would no longer be a "DRUG" were it to be legalize. The gate way part comes from the mentality that "well if all drugs are equally bad and weed turned out to be not so bad at all, maybe i should try coke too ect...". And if the smoking part still makes you think its dangerous then how bout we just make brownies with it? NO danger there what so ever.

 

Marijuana is not a drug, but THC, the chemical that causes marijuana's intoxicating effects, will be a drug whether it's legal or not.  As far as the gateway drug issue goes, well, very few people who drink alcohol started with whiskey, scotch, or tequila.  Most began with beer, wine coolers, or some sort of mixed drink.  The reason for this is obvious.  Those drinks are cheap, easy to get, and for the most part pleasant tasting.  Plus, it takes a lot more wine coolers to get a good buzz than it does if you try to drink the equivalent amount of hard liquor.  Eventually you work your way up to the harder liquors.  The same principal applies with marijuana.  Plus, smoking marijuana for the first time breaks that whole drug taboo that has been pounded into your head your whole life.  Once you've started smoking marijuana on the weekends, what's the big deal about taking an ecstacy pill at a concert or snorting a line of coke at a party?  Smoking pot probably won't make you want to use other, harder, drugs, but smoking pot will probably loosen your inhibitions and make you more open to using other drugs should th
 
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Jimme    GREAT POINT!!!   3/15/2009 3:19:10 AM

I have not smoked pot for over 10 years. The only thing stopping me now is the random drug tests my company has as it is not worth loosing my job.  If it were not for that I would be smoking a nice fat joint after work every day even if it was illegal. I hope they make it legal. Even if they taxed the hell out of it the average person can only smoke so much to get an effect. It's not like cigarrettes where it gives you a tiny short buzz that requires you to light another cigarettte later one. One good joint gives you a nice buzz for the entire evening. If you smoke 2 or 3 joints it's just a waste since it doesn't make you any "higher".

Thats something I didn't even think to write. The effects of Marijuana plateaus so smoking more gets you no higher unlike most any other drug. Also the body starts to build resistance to the effects so that you have to stop using it for a bit before it can start getting you high again.
 
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Aussiegunneragain    Various Replies   3/15/2009 5:32:57 AM
Jimme,
 
Claiming that pot is completely harmless is rubbish and doesn't help your other arguments. It is a psychoactive substance that has been associated with mental illness and it also does the same sort of damage to your lungs as tobacco does. However, from what I have seen pot smokers don't harm anybody else not nearly as much as alcohol drinkers do in any case. Therefore I still support your right to f*ck up your own life if you want to though I don't recommend it.
 
TP and Smitty,
 
I live in a jurisdiction (the Australian Capital Territory) that has decriminalised marijuana use (its just like a traffic fine if you are caught with small amounts) and I come from one where it is still a criminal offence (Queensland). I certainly haven't seen any evidence that the looser laws here have made pot use any more prevalent (not that I mix in those circles, but by the same token I'm not getting offered drugs in the street here). I've also been to Amsterdam and as far as I can see it is only tourists that use a lot of drugs, the Dutch aren't a nation of dysfunctional stoners just because it is easier to get hold of there. My personal opinion is that the laws against personal use of drugs are such an ass that people who want to use ignore them while they don't really change the mind of anybody who doesn't use because they don't want to.
 
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FJV       3/15/2009 7:57:35 AM
I tending to lean to Frank Zappa's view on drugs:
 
Weed use can also influence your performance for
certain jobs in my opinion.
 
 

 
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xylene       3/15/2009 6:16:10 PM

I tending to lean to Frank Zappa's view on drugs:

 

Weed use can also influence your performance for

certain jobs in my opinion.

 

Once again, weed and cocaine being lumped together in one broad stroke. That is misinformation. They are completely different substances and have completely different effects.
 
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DarthAmerica       3/15/2009 7:01:19 PM




I tending to lean to Frank Zappa's view on drugs:



 



Weed use can also influence your performance for



certain jobs in my opinion.



 




Once again, weed and cocaine being lumped together in one broad stroke. That is misinformation. They are completely different substances and have completely different effects.

I say regulate it the way Alcohol is regulated. Which pretty much it already is. Just get rid of the criminal aspect and allow people the legal freedom of choice with regard to use. THen at least we aren't wasting time fighting a problem people want to have.

-DA 
 
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appleciderus       3/15/2009 10:31:00 PM
California has a $40 billion dollar budget deficit.

California refused more than $40 billion dollars in new low impact oil leases.

THIS is California?s mary-jane problem.

Timon_pochas, your account is real world. I wonder how difficult it was to share that. How I wish dreamers would wake up.
 
My thanks and my prayers.

 
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HERALD1357    Aswcerbic viewpoint. Drug users behave    3/15/2009 11:09:21 PM
the way they do because they want to. They run from responsibility and they are afraid of reality. This makes them unfit.
 
Cocaine does not affect you the way that marijuana does, but the behavior patterns that cause persons to go into addiction are similar at the beginning of their path to ruin. A chemical crutch they use to avoid sentience.and descend into an animal condition as they run away from their problems.

Note that alcohol does this also, but that tobacco does not.
 
Tobacco smokers are physical addicts, but they remain sentient. This is why tobacco can be a regulated drug.
 
Marijuana? It falls towards the non-sentience effects of the spectrum.
 
Herald
 
 
 
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HERALD1357    Aswcerbic viewpoint. Drug users behave    3/16/2009 1:49:16 AM
the way they do because they want to. They run from responsibility and they are afraid of reality. This makes them unfit.
 
Cocaine does not affect you the way that marijuana does, but the behavior patterns that cause persons to go into addiction are similar at the beginning of their path to ruin. A chemical crutch they use to avoid sentience.and descend into an animal condition as they run away from their problems.

Note that alcohol does this also, but that tobacco does not.
 
Tobacco smokers are physical addicts, but they remain sentient. This is why tobacco can be a regulated drug.
 
Marijuana? It falls towards the non-sentience effects of the spectrum.
 
Herald
 
 
 
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smitty237    Jimme   3/16/2009 2:37:18 AM




This is something I have advocated for some time now. I think it is time to end the prohibition on Weed and stop kidding ourselves. Fact of the matter is if it were legalized almost none of its usage would change. People who smoke it would still smoke it and those who don't won't. It would actually make it harder for minors to buy and at least assure users that what they are smoking is legitimate and not sprayed with chemicals or laced with angel dust.







Do you really believe this?  Many people do not use drugs for the simple reason that they are illegal, and these people either do not want to break the law to get high or fear the consequences of getting caught.  It only stands to reason that if you legalized marijuana more people would try it, and those that use it only occasionally may use it more often.  A lot of people that smoke pot dismiss this offhand, but I believe that is because a lot of the people in their social circles either smoke pot recreationally or have very liberal attitudes about it.  For the most part, your average citizen is pretty much law abiding.  If you legalize drugs those people will be able to use recreational drugs without violating the law, and legalizing marijuana would remove much of the stigma attached to it.  Judging by the number of teenagers I see smoking cigarettes, I am at a loss to see how legalizing pot would make it harder for minors to buy it.



Actually yes i do believe this. Anyone that has ever been curious about smoking weed has already done so, and they either like it or they don't. The current laws are almost no deterant at all. No one is going to all of a sudden start smoking more either because they smoke has much or has little as they desire has it is. making it legal will not make it any easier to buy, its already easy enough as it is.



I personally smoke, not like i used to but when i'm winding down a busy day it works wonders. The best part is that unlike drinking I dont have to worry about a hang over the next day and actually wake up feeling refreshed.







Sounds great to me, and will probably be a advertising selling point for marijuana dealers were it legalized.  Hell, that little tidbit alone would entice a lot of people to give it a try, and once it's legal and you can buy it at the local head shop without running the risk of going to jail or paying a fine, why not? 



 

Well my thoughts exactly, why not? marijuana IS NOT DANGEROUS PERIOD!!! Sure the smoking part might be but the vast majority of people who smoke weed smoke cigarettes anyways so not much change there. Put a warning label on it and call it a day. So if some one like me who is not a big drink and suffers severe hang overs after even the lightest drinking wants to unwind then I have to be shit out of luck? Who the hell is the government to tell me I can't smoke something i enjoy that harms no one. Why should i be labeled a criminal?





All talk about gateway drugs are nonsense and irrelevant since it would no longer be a "DRUG" were it to be legalize. The gate way part comes from the mentality that "well if all drugs are equally bad and weed turned out to be not so bad at all, maybe i should try coke too ect...". And if the smoking part still makes you think its dangerous then how bout we just make brownies with it? NO danger there what so ever.



 



Marijuana is not a drug, but THC, the chemical that causes marijuana's intoxicating effects, will be a drug whether it's legal or not.  As far as the gateway drug issue goes, well, very few people who drink alcohol started with whiskey, scotch, or tequila.  Most began with beer, wine coolers, or some sort of mixed drink.  The reason for this is obvious.  Those drinks are cheap, easy to get, and for the most part pleasant tasting.  Plus, it takes a lot more wine coolers to get a good buzz than it does if you try to drink the equivalent amount of
 
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