Obamaism - Spread the Wealth Around

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eldnah 10/15/2008 8:13:16 PM

I've tried to get through James H Cone's A Black Theology of Liberation, the basis of Rev Wright's ministry but it was too hatefully rascist and bizarre to finish. No Obama didn't have an occasional drink with the man or run into him a couple of times at community affairs......he sat at his pastoral foot for twenty years. That alone disqualifies him. His relationship with Ayers is also beyond the pale. Unfortunately most people now ask what can my country do for me rather than what can I do for my country.

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Softwar Nazis, Terrorists and Mobsters 10/16/2008 9:15:11 AM

Wright isn't an issue. I listened to him and nothing he said in that sermon was wrong. I'm referring to this...

h*tp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvMbeVQj6Lw&feature=related

...Now political realities being what they are, it's wise for Obama to stay away from this since he would not want it to be spun into something it isn't. But nothing is wrong or even incorrect with that sermon. Dont forget Rev Wright is a former Marine and USN Corpsman who has cared for a US President...

ht*p://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e9/Jeremiah_Wright_as_a_Marine_Medic_Tending_to_Pres_Lyndon_Johnson.jpg/200px-Jeremiah_Wright_as_a_Marine_Medic_Tending_to_Pres_Lyndon_Johnson.jpg

...that's a no win issue for McCain and best left alone.

Ayers did what he did when Obama was 8 years old and suggesting some nefarious association is silly as pools have shown. Only far right Republicans even care about it. As far as "Jew Hating" or "Corrupt" goes, thats nice but proof? I don't mean opinion but proof. Even so Americans don't care about irrelevant crap like that when their portfolios and retirement accounts are worth considerably less that a month ago. McCain needs to have a candid down to earth talk with Americans tonight about what he intends to do to secure their investments and jobs. Anything short of that, any TIME WASTED trying to demonize Obama for some past association with a has been terrorist is certain doom for McCains chances of winning.

Im not an apologist for Obama. I don't hate McCain nor am I publically endorsing Obama. I'm just objectively explaining WHY things are as they are and sharing observations about what's wrong with McCains approach. I was asked what McCain should do earlier and I didn't respond. The reason is I'm not sure at this point is McCain can do anything. His best chance ended with Palin's nomination and the passage of the bailout package. At this point, Obama will only lose if he makes some crazy mistake and based on how he has carried himself that doesn't seem likely. Perhaps if McCain could have got Powell, Dr. Rice or Gen Honore on his ticket that would have helped more than Palin but it's much too late for that. Not to mention none of those individuals would run against Obama.

-DA

Darth - check carefully - Obama helped spin money to Wright - money that he used - for example - to expouse his support of Farrakhan. Wright has real problems when it comes to speechs like declaring its "AmeriKKKa" or "God Damn America". Obama was not asleep during these racist and anti-US sermons. Wright is a racist and hates jews plain and simple. If he was wearing an Iron cross he could be mistaken for one of the bad guys in an Indiana Jones film.

Ayers may have bombed the US in the 1960s but he published an article on 9/11/2001 saying he did not regret it - he'd do it all over again. Obama did not stop hanging out with him then. He also appeared in a photo shoot standing on the American flag. Obama served with him on two paying boards passing out millions of dollars to guys like Wright, and started his political career in Ayers home. This speaks volumes about how Obama feels about the USA. Ayers and Osama bin Laden have two things in common - the both hate America and they both bombed the Pentagon.

The final nail is Rezko - who defrauded the US taxpayers, and kept minority citizens in slum rat holes - all with the willing help of Obama. Obama helped him score $43 million in low cost loans - which defaulted and Rezko kept running the rat hole projects in violation of the laws. Obama got donations and even a nice mansion for hanging out with Rezko - now the convicted felon. Obama did not stop taking money or hanging out with Rezko until it looked like he was going to be indicted. The only difference between Rezko and Al Capone - is that Capone had more compassion - he would shoot you instead of letting you freeze to death.

You have three amigos here - Wright, Ayers and Rezko - all slime and all big on Obama. All three are legitimate issues and have a direct effect on the polls. If McCain hung out with a Nazi, a terrorist and a mobster - let's see the proof and you bet it would be plastered all over the news. Obama selected his business partners and political allies - he should be held accountable for those selections.

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reefdiver 10/16/2008 7:46:12 PM

Obama's questionable list of associates:

Ayers (the "former" terrorist - not "mainstream", socialist that is),

Rev. Wright (20 years of listening to this racist, anti-semitic - whoops I forgot Obama never listened),

Michele Obama (proud of America for the first time recently),

Franklin Raines (ousted head of Fannie Mae ),

Tony Rezko (Crooked guy born in Syria.)

ACORN (as in massive voter fraud...Obama was a trainer for them and later represented them),

Dr. Khalid al-Mansour/Don Warden (activist, openly anti-semitic pro Palestinean, African American Muslim, mentor to the Black Panthers, apparently helped Obama get into Harvard, claimed in 1995 book that America is planning the genocide of black Americans, advisor and influence peddler for the Saudi Royal Family, raised money for Obama's college),

Wahid Hamid (Obama's muslim roomate, who Obama went to Pakistan with at a time - 1981- that Pakistan travel was presumably banned for US citizens and basically only muslims were allowed in),

Mike Klonsky (member of Obama campaign, former(?) member of Beijing-recognized Communist Party),

Frank Marshal Davis (well known communist party member, and another mentor of Obama's),

the socialist New Party (Obama was a member - documented by a 1996 newsletter),

other friends (quote from Obama: "To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist Professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets."),

what kind of friends did he have when he was doing drugs? (gotta wonder)

Homer Simpson (just a supporter...: ?Obama cares about people like me,? Homer declares. ?I haven?t been blessed with intelligence, a strong work-ethic, or sound moral judgment. But I have needs. An Obama administration will make it easier for guys like me to get what we need.? )

Its an interesting group. Amazing Obama is even able to run for any office. Others of a different color of skin probably wouldn't be able to with this group of friends in their closet. Wonder if this is where his socialist/leftist views came from.

Quote for the day, from Thomas Jefferson, 1787:

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. "

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reefdiver 10/16/2008 9:15:37 PM

Obama's questionable list of associates:

Ayers (the "former" terrorist - not "mainstream", socialist that is),

Rev. Wright (20 years of listening to this racist, anti-semitic - whoops I forgot Obama never listened),

Michele Obama (proud of America for the first time recently),

Franklin Raines (ousted head of Fannie Mae ),

Tony Rezko (Crooked guy born in Syria.)

ACORN (as in massive voter fraud...Obama was a trainer for them and later represented them),

Wahid Hamid (Obama's muslim roomate, who Obama went to Pakistan with at a time - 1981- that Pakistan travel was presumably banned for US citizens and basically only muslims were allowed in),

Mike Klonsky (member of Obama campaign, former(?) member of Beijing-recognized Communist Party),

Frank Marshal Davis (well known communist party member, and another mentor of Obama's),

the socialist New Party (Obama was a member - documented by a 1996 newsletter),

what kind of friends did he have when he was doing drugs? (gotta wonder)

Quote for the day, from Thomas Jefferson, 1787:

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. "

Whoops - forgot Arafat's buddy and former PLO news agency director, Rashid Khalidi, supported by Ayers and Obama who helped underwrite Khalidi's Arab American Action League.

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reefdiver 10/17/2008 12:46:17 AM

Obama's questionable list of associates:

Ayers (the "former" terrorist - not "mainstream", socialist that is),

Rev. Wright (20 years of listening to this racist, anti-semitic - whoops I forgot Obama never listened),

Michele Obama (proud of America for the first time recently),

Franklin Raines (ousted head of Fannie Mae ),

Tony Rezko (Crooked guy born in Syria.)

ACORN (as in massive voter fraud...Obama was a trainer for them and later represented them),

Wahid Hamid (Obama's muslim roomate, who Obama went to Pakistan with at a time - 1981- that Pakistan travel was presumably banned for US citizens and basically only muslims were allowed in),

Mike Klonsky (member of Obama campaign, former(?) member of Beijing-recognized Communist Party),

Frank Marshal Davis (well known communist party member, and another mentor of Obama's),

the socialist New Party (Obama was a member - documented by a 1996 newsletter),

what kind of friends did he have when he was doing drugs? (gotta wonder)

Quote for the day, from Thomas Jefferson, 1787:

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. "

Whoops - forgot Arafat's buddy and former PLO news agency director, Rashid Khalidi, supported by Ayers and Obama who helped underwrite Khalidi's Arab American Action League.

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doggtag wonder if anybody's going to catch on.... 10/17/2008 8:31:29 AM

...that Obama's "spread the wealth around" ideal is starting to wreak of what it could well be in disguise: an over-glorified reparations plan.

Joe the plumber has the right idea, though: he said in a later interview that it has to come from the top down, not from the bottom up.

And in saying coming from the top down, he wasn't implying he meant that the people in charge had to pass down the legislation to the people at the bottom.

Always be wary when politicians start preaching that everyone (or rather, everyone else but the politician in question) needs to start making more sacrifices "for the greater good"...

BHO claims he's not going to raise taxes, but what excuse then is he going to use in justifying taking more money from hard-working successul people so he has it to spread it around to those "less fortunate" people who have chosen not to apply themselves as hard?

It's one thing if a person's disabled for whatever reason and physically can't work,

but an over-glorified socialist welfare system intent on harboring the lazy and unmotivated will only make this country worse.

Aside from an over-glorified welfare system, what exactly are the plans BHO has to actually encourage more job growth in the US?

Job growth meaning decent liveable wages that can support a family and allow them to purchase a decent house at fair interest rates, not service industry related jobs where politicians think 4,000,000 more minimum wage jobs in the fast food industry is good for our economy.

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Softwar WSJ Chart - Obama Tax Increase 10/17/2008 9:38:47 AM

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doggtag tax chart rationale 10/17/2008 10:35:11 AM

Anyone care to explain why those in the ~$30-45K income bracket should be bearing a heavier tax burden than those in the ~$55-100K income brackets?

Seems like BHO is more interested in creating a more solid divisor line between upper class and lower class: if you're starting out on the bottom (weren't born with the proverbial silver spoon), then it seems like BHO's plan isn't really offering you a ton of incentive to lift yourself out a minimum wage job (that more than likely means you'll be pulling in more of his socialized welfare to help support your family),

as your tax burden will increase, almost exponentially it seems, unless somehow you manage to luck out and jump up into the >$50K margin without having to struggle thru the lower ranks up thru the $30-45K margins.

The other piss of it is,

why should it suddenly drop back off after you make more than ~120K?

Why does someone who's making $45K have to pay a bigger tax percentage than someone making $125K?

And why exactly should those people in the $85-100K range get the lowest tax percentage?

(are these $85-100K'ers the ones who mostly funded his campaign?)

What ever happened to those across-the-board flat taxes we used to hear politicians promising, where everyone pays the same tax rate as anyone else in any other tax bracket?

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buzzard 10/17/2008 11:53:23 AM

Keep in mind that the graph is for marginal rates, not overall rates. It can be deceptive if you aren't careful to note what you are looking at.

Obama's plan is particularly horrible in the incentives it creates. As you mention, it offers large disincentives to increase your income at the low end since you will be giving up a whole lot of federal freebies.

However it should be noted that the taxes on the wealthy will increase under Obama, don't get that wrong.

Of course the interesting thing about taxing the rich is that it never works anyway. The ignorant assumption that the rich will stand still and get fleeced has been proven wrong again and again, but still it sells to the rubes.

When you jack up taxes on the high end, you might manage to trap a bit more income from the upper middle class and the bottom end of the wealthy, but the really rich people find a way around it. There's plenty of tax lawyers and tax accountants our there perfectly capable of making good money to use those volumes of loopholes written into the tax code.

Now why do I say this actually favors the really rich (the Buffets, Soros, etcs)? Because they can afford to pay off those who are masters of the loopholes. The best tax lawyers don't come cheap.

So assume I make , say, $300K per year. Obama is going to jack up my taxes by 10% (from 40% to 50%). That will cost me an extra $30K per year. However the tax lawyer wants $100K to cut my tax liability. Now if I make $2.5M per year, all of a sudden my new liability under Obama has gone up by $250K and I have a real incentive to play the games of the tax lawyer. Odds are he'll find enough loopholes to more than shields my $250k, and in fact might well reduce my tax liability to what it was before the hike altogether.

Alternatively, I can just work less and take it easy. Tax hikes don't hit money already earned, just income. Thus if I'm already rich, well screw it, I don't need to be productive anymore if they are going to take more of it.

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Softwar One Born Every Minute 10/17/2008 2:10:21 PM

The Obama tax plan is ironic - it actually hurts the "joe six pack" blue collar workers that he is so busy courting. So many in this class are blind democrats - sheep heading to the fleecing - totally unaware that the very guy they are so hell bent on voting for will increase their taxes. As PT Barnum said - Suckers.

Then there is the tax the rich part - we tried this before with the famed luxery tax. The result was a disaster and a loss of tax revenue. The rich suddenly did not buy boats, fast cars and small planes. The tax was hardest on the boat manufacturing, car and small aircraft industries - the little guys who depended on wages were laid off and it took years for some of the industries to recover.

When will we learn that people who have money and can spend it - will. They buy things - things that people make and sell. Services such as vacations and eating out. They invest it in things with low or no taxes. When you threaten to tax this money - it flees to other areas (havens, offshore banks, loopholes) and is not invested nor spent.

Historically, lowering tax rates results in more revenue for the government. It has been proven time and again. Yet, socialists who want to "redistribute" the wealth use the tax system as a method of social reform. They are not interested in increasing revenue - the government can always print more money. They want to use the economy as a social experiment on "fairness" - only to see it backfire against the very people they claim to be helping.

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DarthAmerica 10/17/2008 3:02:45 PM

If the ultimate goal is to raise revenue for the USG. Why don't they just do a simple comparison of the methods and pick the one that nets the most money after subtracting out all the various programs? I never understood why this is so hard. We I do. It's political ideology.

-DA

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Softwar 10/17/2008 3:42:40 PM

-DA

Darth - I am ashamed of you! A simple and elegant solution to taxes? I mean really - one would get the impression you are a true capitalist and would allow the market to pick the best solution instead of committees, scholars, journalists, lobbyists, lawyers and our elected representatives who ALWAYS act in our best interests.

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DarthAmerica 10/17/2008 3:59:46 PM

-DA

Softwar, some of our views may differ and I realize that is because our experiences in life are different. But I agree with you on this issue. I mean, I understand that at certain levels the Government has to help people out. I understand the Government has to collect taxes. Heck even God wants 10%. But I think that the tax rate should be fair regardless of income. I also think that there are limits on what the Government can do. And I think that the market if left alone(within reason) is inherently fair to people who make smart choices with money.

I also think people have choices to make in life. If you are barely making ends meet in one job, then change jobs. Otherwise you have to make due with what you have. But everybody should have the opportunity to better themselves if they choose to do so.

-DA

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Softwar KKN 10/17/2008 4:41:02 PM

Darth - when comes to government, taxes and your money - I subscribe to the old Virginia point of view - when Congress is in session - lock up the liquor, ladies and your wallet.

The best description is the 3 letter abreviation I once found in documents involving dirty (kick-back laced deals) with Indonesia, specifically the power plants. In one document - the Indonesians called the dirty deals "KKN" - which stands for Corruption, Collusion and Nepotism.

Government is not something to be distrusted - However, it is wise always to trust but verify. Frequent audits are a welcome sign because open books are the signature of a clean organization. When they hide the books, and attack the auditors then you know something is wrong.

There are dishonest power seekers who take money while ignoring the plight of those they are elected to serve. There are also others who give so much of themselves that no amount can ever pay back the debt we owe them. The problem is knowing which is which.

I don't mind paying my fair share of taxes - and in some cases I am willing to pay more because I know what it is going for (e.g. our national defense is the #1 priority). I only object when there are freeloaders, corrupt practices and the same old crowd lining their pockets with my hard earned dollars. Redistribution of wealth is a failed social theory that can never succeed. It is a scheme to fool the ignorant and the path toward national destruction.

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DarthAmerica 10/17/2008 5:47:05 PM

Darth - when comes to government, taxes and your money - I subscribe to the old Virginia point of view - when Congress is in session - lock up the liquor, ladies and your wallet.

I agree.

-DA

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