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Subject: Obama wins debate--
Le Zookeeper    10/8/2008 12:55:54 AM
Per all CNN polls and my friends from across the world
 
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Jimme       10/8/2008 3:29:32 AM
CNN polls are crap along with all the other network polls including the fox one where McCain won by an 87%-11% margin. These are people who where already on board with Obma or McCain and there for meaningless. In All honesty by itself McCain dominated most of the debate. If you think other wise then you are too high on the BO cool aid. For purposes of the campaign though BO did pretty much what he had to, he did not win anything but he didn't lose much either. McCain on the other hand struck some good points but i don't think he got the big gusto he needed to put BO in his place. 


Great thing for McCain though is that he totally took control of the economy discussion leaving BO looking flustered. Personally I don't see how people can think Obama has the upper hand on the economy. He clearly has no CLUE about how it works. To say that only a few small businesses earn over $250k a year is ludicrous. I know sandwich shops that can generate over $300k a year. Doesn't mean the owner is rich just that his/her business is running well. Every economist in the country knows that raising taxes on businesses is the fastest way to drive them out. You work hard for your company to make money, not be whored out by my government.

 
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Softwar    Herc you are soooo sad   10/8/2008 6:08:57 AM
Let's see - per your "friends" around the world....  Would that be your pals in the Chinese military or how about your buddies in Sudan and Zimbabwe?  Perhaps the communist party in India?  Or perhaps the Afghan expert you cited before in your postings - you know the one who runs a sheep-kabob food stand?
 
You based your opinion on your expertise as what this time?  Your claim to be a radar expert, a stealth materials expert, a Phd in economics or your career as a software engineer?  Could the whole claim you make here be based on your actual employment experience... cashier ... and you consulted with the other cashiers?
 
You once posted that everyone has a price ....  How much are you being paid to come back to SP under a different name and post the same old stuff?
 
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smitty237    Just ignore him   10/8/2008 9:36:42 AM
I usually don't address this loser's posts because he's become a self parody.  I had never even heard of an internet troll until people started to refer to Herc as one.  He is the classical example of such a creature.  Herc reminds me of the kid in school growing up that would cheer for whoever the home team was playing just so he could get attention and be different.  Herc thinks China is a great country, the Rafale is the greatest fighter aircraft in the world, and now thinks Obama is absolutely dreamy.  How boringly predictable. 
 
Please, everyone, ignore this loser and he will go away.  No more insults, no more trying to argue with him, and no more trying to get SYSOPS to kick him off SP.  From now on let's fight him with the only weapon that will really hurt him................silence.
 
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RaptorZ       10/8/2008 10:57:23 AM

Per all CNN polls and my friends from across the world

So obama won the debate per the Clinton News Network?   That's a shocker.....
 
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PlatypusMaximus       10/8/2008 12:51:36 PM
Everytime Herc looks stupid, an angel get's its wings.
 
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PaulG       10/8/2008 2:29:39 PM
Thank God.
 
I thought McCain did fairly well, but it's hard for me to be objective.
 
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PaulG    MORE THAN CNN   10/8/2008 2:47:22 PM
Other polls affirmed the CNN conclusion about Barak coming out ahead in the debate:
 
http://
www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/8/71227/6169/246/623177
 
 
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The-Great       10/8/2008 3:18:51 PM
Yeah, BO won hands down.
 
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hardcharger    No Way   10/8/2008 4:01:44 PM

Yeah, BO won hands down.

Look at the exact point in 2000, Al Gore was ahead of George Bush by 11 points in the polls and everyone was saying Gore won the debate, (The finale one he blew big time) Bottom line Screw the polls, this election is going to be close, very close and we will all be up late election night biting fingernails no matter what side of the fence we are on
 
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hardcharger    On topic however   10/8/2008 4:58:10 PM
It is difficult for me to remain objective, but as far as debate goes I see it like this
 
1 On Economy, I thought MCCain clearly had the advantage, Hands down. He was much more specific although I really wanted to hear more
 
2 On Healthcare, Slight edge Obama, not that his Health care plan is better, I actually think it would be a disaster, but as far as the debate goes, he did a slightly better job explaining his as McCain did.
 
3. On Foriegn Affairs Advantage McCain. That was pretty clear.  So two points McCain 1 Point Obama
 
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Jimme       10/9/2008 1:20:14 AM

Other polls affirmed the CNN conclusion about Barak coming out ahead in the debate:

 

http://

www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/8/71227/6169/246/623177

 


Paul daily Kos is not the most objective site out there. Like I said FOX poll had McCain winning 87% to 11%.
Personally i though BO won the first one but this one was definitely McCain's

 
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PlatypusMaximus       10/9/2008 8:56:36 AM
Drudge had a poll the morning after the debate which had JSM over BHO by 2:1+...(appx. 200K/100K). 30 million visit that site every day.
 
I came away feeling like JSM  was trying to compare 2 Senators in the contex of what they've done, and how that will affect us in going foward. Obama sounded like he was saying he plans on out-governmenting GWB.
BHO came off as a BS'er, dodging direct answers and basically telling people to punish JSM for his associations with GWB. 
Biden sounded exactly like the top 145% of the 450 million liars in DC...


 
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PaulG       10/9/2008 2:31:39 PM
Hard Charger,
 
Do you really think McCain was credible on the economy?
 
As Obama pointed out, McCain has been an inveterate deregulator. And now he wants to re-regulate banking? How credible is that really? McCain tried to make something of some letter he wrote two years ago about Fannie and Freddie, but Obama pointed out that McCain's campaign manager is a lobbyist for those two entities. And Obama was blowing the whistle on subprime lending years before it was cool.
 
Ultimately, this is a job interview, and you've got to look at the work history of the candidates who want you to hire them. To me it's just not credible that a candidate who has been "A" all his life can make a compelling case that he's going to do "B" as soon as he's elected.
 
 
 
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Softwar    PaulG REPLY   10/9/2008 3:33:52 PM

Let's make this clear with some facts - Obama has been inside Fannie Mae scandal from the start and DID nothing to stop the collapse.  In his short term in Congress, Obama has raked in more Fannie Mae donations than any other member of Congress in 20 years except Senator Dodd. Obama has sought the campaign advice of two former Fannie Mae CEOs who took money based on the "purposely obscured" accounting documented by the audit report. Obama has bundlers and advisers from the collapsed institution sprinkled over his campaign like sugar over cookies.

This is a quote from the audit report on Fannie Mae -

"By deliberately and intentionally manipulating accounting to hit earnings targets, senior management maximized the bonuses and other executive compensation they received, at the expense of shareholders. Earnings management made a significant contribution to the compensation of Fannie Mae Chairman and CEO Franklin Raines, which totaled over $90 million from 1998 through 2003. Of that total, over $52 million was directly tied to achieving earnings per share targets."

So while Franklin Raines, currently adviser to Senator Obama, walks free with millions in his pockets, homeowners and taxpayers all over America are paying the price of his failed leadership.

Then there is Jim Johnson, former Fannie Mae CEO turned adviser to the Obama campaign. According to the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight's May 2006 report on mismanagement and corruption inside Fannie Mae, Johnson obtained millions of dollars of hidden income from the corporation.

In fact, investigators found that Fannie Mae had hidden a substantial amount of Johnson's 1998 compensation from the public, reporting that it was between $6 million and $7 million, when it fact it was $21 million.

And how about Daniel Shapiro?  Shapiro is one of Obama?s top foreign policy advisers on the Middle East, also registered to lobby for several corporate clients in the last year. Shapiro, who worked during the 1990s for President Bill Clinton?s National Security Council, lists some of America?s biggest corporate names among his clients, including the American Petroleum Institute and Freddie Mac.

Where was John McCain? In 2005, Sen. McCain proposed legislation that could have prevented this whole mess to reform Fannie and Freddie.

McCain's legislation was defeated by Dodd and the Senate Democrats. Since then Dodd along with Democrat Sens. Obama, John Kerry, and Hillary Clinton - the top four recipients of Fannie and Freddie campaign contributions from 1988 to 2008 - actively opposed any reform measures and supported weakening existing regulations.

 
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Softwar    MObama Money From Lehman, Fannie etc... Get the FACTS Straight   10/9/2008 4:05:41 PM

Ted Janulis, head of Mortgage Capital at Lehman Brothers until his retirement in September 2008, is a "Bundler" for Obama's Presidential campaign - Committed to raising $50,000 to $100,000. (Obama For America Website, www.barackobama.com, Accessed 5/19/08)

In just four years, Obama has received more money from Lehman Brothers than any other member of Congress since 1989 except Sen. Hillary Clinton. (Lindsay Renick Mayer, "Brothers Grim: Is Lehman Next?" Center For Responsive Politics' "Capital Eye" Blog, www.opensecrets.org, 9/12/08)

John Rhea, a managing Director and co-Head of global consumer and retail investment banking for Lehman Brothers, is a "Bundler" for Obama's Presidential campaign committed to raising $50,000 to $100,000. (Obama For America Website, www.barackobama.com, Accessed 5/15/08)

"[N]adja Fidelia, who is also a Managing Director at Lehman Brothers, has raised at least $50,000 for Obama..." (Timothy Williams, "Obama Takes His Campaign to Harlem," New York Times, 11/30/07)

William Daley is a top economic advisor to Obama - Daley served on the Fannie Mae Board and received hundreds of thousands in stock options and Director fees. "After Clinton passed over Daley for a Cabinet post in his first term, he appointed him to the Fannie Mae board. Daley reported collecting $ 24,814 in director's fees in 1996 from the firm. He also listed deferred compensation and stock options from Fannie Mae worth between $ 215,000 and $ 500,000." (Charles R. Babcock and Barbara J. Saffir, "In Wealth, Clinton Team Doesn't Look Like America," The Washington Post, 6/24/97)

-----

And what did John McCain say/do about Fannie and Freddie?

"I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation.  If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole." (Office Of U.S. Senator John McCain, "McCain Statement On Co-Sponsorship Of The Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act Of 2005," Press Release, 5/26/06)

His bill was defeated in an effort led by Senators Dodd, Obama, Clinton and Kerry.

 
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