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Subject: Obama may not be eligible for the presidency
Zhang Fei    6/19/2008 5:10:50 PM
The requirement is for him to be a natural-born US citizen. I had thought that someone born to one US citizen parent overseas was automatically a natural-born US citizen. Looks like the requirement is *two* US citizen parents. That?s just hard to fathom - that two illegal aliens on US soil can produce a natural-born US citizen baby, but one natural-born US citizen on foreign soil can?t produce a natural-born US citizen baby. I would classify this as a major loophole, and perhaps an unjust one, but the solution is probably to end automatic citizenship to babies born on American soil to illegal aliens, rather than extend it to babies born to one US parent on foreign soil.
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       6/20/2008 12:06:29 AM
Obama's mother is an American citizen, so "law of blood" applies and he is automatically a naturally born citizen.
 
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Zhang Fei       6/20/2008 12:12:16 AM
Like I said, that's what I thought, but it's apparently untrue, based on actual Supreme Court rulings.
 
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Old Grunt    E-mail Rumor   6/20/2008 7:38:18 AM
Been circulating for a while now
 
 
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Zhang Fei       6/20/2008 2:25:16 PM
I think the contention is that this is a made-up birth certificate - from the laser-printed output, it's clear that this isn't the original. On the other hand, if the State of Hawaii did generate it recently - much as marriage bureaus generate marriage certificates on demand, the complaint probably isn't legit. The suspicion has nothing to do with him being born in Hawaii - it's to do with the possibility of him being born abroad to one US citizen parent, and then finagling his birthplace to appear to be eligible for automatic citizenship.

If there's any truth to it, it will probably resurface later. I personally hope it doesn't. I think McCain has no hope against Clinton. He's at least got a shot against Obama.
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       6/21/2008 12:31:10 AM

I think the contention is that this is a made-up birth certificate - from the laser-printed output, it's clear that this isn't the original. On the other hand, if the State of Hawaii did generate it recently - much as marriage bureaus generate marriage certificates on demand, the complaint probably isn't legit. The suspicion has nothing to do with him being born in Hawaii - it's to do with the possibility of him being born abroad to one US citizen parent, and then finagling his birthplace to appear to be eligible for automatic citizenship.

If there's any truth to it, it will probably resurface later. I personally hope it doesn't. I think McCain has no hope against Clinton. He's at least got a shot against Obama.

1. Hillary has a lot of baggage, not the least one big bag aka her husband.

2. "http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html"

Natural-born citizen

Who is a natural-born citizen? Who, in other words, is a citizen at birth, such that that person can be a President someday?

The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

  • Anyone born inside the United States
  • Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
  • Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
  • Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
  • Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
  • Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
  • Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
  • A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.


 
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CJH       6/21/2008 11:45:02 PM
Perhaps there has been a concern about aliens marrying US citizens to stay in this country.
 
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Nakednegro    Obama Birth Certificate   6/27/2008 5:33:05 PM
I have read all over the internet that obama may not be elgible to run for president? 
Does anyone know where he was born. does anyone know if he can legally run for president?
 Has anyone checked his residency to see if he is a natural born citizen?
 I want to see proof either way. Doesn't anyone else care?
 
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ArtyEngineer    Nakednegro   6/27/2008 6:05:44 PM

I have read all over the internet that obama may not be elgible to run for president? 

Does anyone know where he was born. does anyone know if he can legally run for president?

 Has anyone checked his residency to see if he is a natural born citizen?

 I want to see proof either way. Doesn't anyone else care?


Are you a moron?  Old Grunt provided a link which thoroughly debunks this internet rumour.  I gues you really havent searched that hard in your attempt to find the facts.  The fact this thread isnt a hot topic is because most of on here are able to do some basic research and come to our own conclusion that its total BS.
Regards
 
Arty
 
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Zhang Fei    More controversy   7/5/2008 10:01:00 PM
(Quote) 
Yes, I think that facts, with sources are in fact set out there if you look.

The only support for the proposition that he was born in Hawaii is a birth certificate which is a demonstrated fraud.

One of his grandfather's wives (he calls her his grandmother but she is not) and two of his half-siblings are quoted as having been present at his birth in Kenya. An update to the Wayne Madsen report claims investigators in Kenya have found official birth registration documents setting forth his birth in Kenya. Mother's girlfriends on Mercer Island, having seen her in late August, 1961, shortly after the claimed birth date, state that she was out of the Country when he was born.

No real Hawaii birth record exists. No one claims to have been there or have any real knowledge it happened. The Hospital originally claimed as the birthplace was not constructed until three years after the birth. Newspaper Vital Statistic reports published in the local newspapers do not report the birth under the name he currently uses nor any of the other names he has used; his mother does not appear as a mother. The birth certificate is a fraud.

There is a compendium of other evidence set out in the earlier thread on both counts.
(Unquote)
 
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Ashley-the-man       8/25/2008 12:21:20 PM
 

Now we know why tigers eat their young.

by Jeff Schreiber
America's Right.com

A prominent Philadelphia attorney and Hillary Clinton supporter filed suit this afternoon in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania against Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, the Democratic National Committee and the Federal Election Commission. The action seeks an injunction preventing the senator from continuing his candidacy and a court order enjoining the DNC from nominating him next week, all on grounds that Sen. Obama is constitutionally ineligible to run for and hold the office of President of the United States.

Philip Berg, the filing attorney, is a former gubernatorial and senatorial candidate, former chair of the Democratic Party in Montgomery (PA) County, former member of the Democratic State Committee, and former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania. According to Berg, he filed the suit--just days before the DNC is to hold its nominating convention in Denver--for the health of the Democratic Party.

"I filed this action at this time," Berg stated, "to avoid the obvious problems that will occur when the Republican Party raises these issues after Obama is nominated.".

Berg cited a number of unanswered questions regarding the Illinois senator's background, and in today's lawsuit maintained that Sen. Obama is not a natural born U.S. citizen or that, if he ever was, he lost his citizenship when he was adopted in Indonesia. Berg also cites what he calls "dual loyalties" due to his citizenship and ties with Kenya and Indonesia.

Even if Sen. Obama can prove his U.S. citizenship, Berg stated, citing the senator's use of a birth certificate from the state of Hawaii verified as a forgery by three independent document forensic experts, the issue of "multi-citizenship with responsibilities owed to and allegiance to other countries" remains on the table.

In the lawsuit, Berg states that Sen. Obama was born in Kenya, and not in Hawaii as the senator maintains. Before giving birth, according to the lawsuit, Obama's mother traveled to Kenya with his father but was prevented from flying back to Hawaii because of the late stage of her pregnancy, "apparently a normal restriction to avoid births during a flight." As Sen. Obama's own paternal grandmother, half-brother and half-sister have also claimed, Berg maintains that Stanley Ann Dunham--Obama's mother--gave birth to little Barack in Kenya and subsequently flew to Hawaii to register the birth.

Berg cites inconsistent accounts of Sen. Obama's birth, including reports that he was born at two separate hospitals--Kapiolani Hospital and Queens Hospital--in Honolulu, as well a profound lack of birthing records for Stanley Ann Dunham, though simple "registry of birth" records for Barack Obama are available in a Hawaiian public records office.

Should Sen. Obama truly have been born in Kenya, Berg writes, the laws on the books at the time of his birth hold that U.S. citizenship may only pass to a child born overseas to a U.S. citizen parent and non-citizen parent if the former was at least 19 years of age. Sen. Obama's mother was only 18 at the time. Therefore, because U.S. citizenship could not legally be passed on to him, Obama could not be registered as a "natural born" citizen and would therefore be ineligible to seek the presidency pursuant to Article II, Section 1 of the United States Constitution.

Moreover, even if Sen. Obama could have somehow been deemed "natural born," that citizenship was lost in or around 1967 when he and his mother took up residency in Indonesia, where Stanley Ann Dunham married Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian citizen. Berg also states that he possesses copies of Sen. Obama's registration to Fransiskus Assisi School In Jakarta, Indonesia which clearly show that he was registered under the name "Barry Soetoro" and his citizenship listed as Indonesian.

The Hawaiian birth certificate, Berg says, is a forgery. In the suit, the attorney states that the birth certificate on record is a forgery, has been identified as such by three independent document forensic experts, and actually belonged to Maya Kasandra Soetoro, Sen. Obama's half-sister.

"Voters donated money, goods and services to elect a nominee and were defrauded by Sen. Obama's lies and obfuscations," Berg stated. "If the DNC officers ... had performed one ounce of due diligence we would not find ourselves in this emergency predicament, one week away from making a person the nominee who has lost their citizenship as a child and failed to even perform the basic steps of regaining citizenship as prescribed by constitutional laws."

"It is unfair to the country," he continued, "for candidates of either party to become the nominee when there is any question of the ability to serve if elected."

 

In a nutshell, is the Hawaiian birth certificate a forgery or an attempt to produce a document that falsely claims that Obama was born in Hawaii? If it can be proved he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii, he has some serious problems ahead. 

If Obama fails to address the issue, the internet will run with this story till election day and there will be challenges not unlike the 2000 election debacle that ended up in the Supreme Court.

Obama, get some competent detectives and attorneys to get that Hawaiian birth certified and the claims of a Kenyan birth disproved.

 

 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       8/26/2008 11:07:31 AM
Doesn't matter the mother was 18 or 19, the 14th amendment doesn't mention age.  Is this how low the RNC is going to go to beat Obama?
 
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Old Grunt    Nan   8/26/2008 12:04:07 PM
The 14th amendment doesn't define "natural born" citizenship so it cannot be used as the determining standard.
This lawsuit is being pursued by a member of the Hillary camp, not the RNC.
 
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Ashley-the-man       8/27/2008 3:12:00 AM
Many politicians are set up and forced to respond to attacks with little merit.  Obama faces a dilemna that he cannot ignore.  Until a lawsuit is filed he can choose not to reply to allegations regarding his place of birth.  If he fails to give credible evidence of a valid Hawaiian birth certificate, then the republicans will wait to October and attack him.  If he is elected, then the republicans can seek to impeach him forcing the democrats into an embarassing and costly defense.
 
He had better have a valid birth certificate in his back pocket, or he will have his candidancy undune by something that he should have cleared up years  ago.
 
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PowerPointRanger    Internet Hoax   8/27/2008 7:55:18 AM
BO was born in Hawaii in 1961 (a US state at the time), which makes him a US citizen, period.
 
This is just another Internet hoax--probably by  Clinton backers.
 
Why do I think it is Clintonistas and not Republicans?
1)  Republicans don't benefit from the rumor.  HRC does.  If people believe it and turn to HRC, the democrats get a stronger candidate than they presently have.
2) The timing coincides with the convention, not the general election.
3) A similar Internet Hoax was circulated about McCain (who was born in the Panama Canal Zone while his father was in the military).
4) No such rumor about HRC.
5) Dems are blaming Republicans (which is a sure sign that dems did it themselves and are trying to avoid blame).
 
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Ashley-the-man       8/27/2008 11:01:34 AM
BO was born in Hawaii in 1961 (a US state at the time), which makes him a US citizen, period.
 
The lawsuit is about the "period."  Comments from Berg who is bringing the lawsuit is that the birth certificate is a forgerie.  If there is a finding that the Obama was born in Hawaii, then case closed.  McCain went the extra distance to get a confirmation from congress that he was "legal."  Obama has a much more difficult route to establish that he is "street legal."  The fact that he has not done so makes one suspect as how he will handle a range of more complex issues as POTUS.
 
 
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