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 News As History - August 21, 2008

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Subject: Is the Iraq War won already?
YelliChink    5/31/2008 10:11:34 AM
I am just wondering why I don't hear bloody bombs that kill innocent Iraqi civilians anymore? At least not as often and as bloody as it once was, and not as often and as graphic as it was once fed through new services. I have to dig news out of piles of nonsense to find some continual violence in Iraq, and it doesn't seem as bad as Sri Lanka or Colombia.

In short, is the Iraq War already won, albeit quietly, such that most of the goals of the US set out by GWB in 2003 have reached acceptable level?

Saddam Hussein deposed................ checked
Al Qaeda in Iraq defeated............. checked
Iraqis run a democracy................ checked
Violence goes down.................... checked
Anti-Coalition violence down.......... checked
Iraqis run sn effective government.... unchecked
Disarming militias.................... unchecked
Rebuilding Iraq Infrastructure........ seriously unchecked
Iraqis able to defend themselves...... unchecked

Well, there is still a long way to go.
 
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Zhang Fei       5/31/2008 10:44:19 AM
When our monthly dead dwindle to single digit levels, we'll know the conflict is done. Because single digit levels would be indistinguishable from the normal number of deaths from accidents. Here's an antiwar site that tracks American casualties. If you click on the monthly totals, you get a detailed accounting of when, where and how (hostile vs non-hostile) GI's are dying in Iraq.
 
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Zhang Fei       5/31/2008 11:00:56 AM

From the standpoint of deaths, things are looking up - fewer GI's are dying per month. Although it has to be said that I'm uncertain what percentage of the reduction is due to the deployment of MRAPs. On the other hand, I have heard that other metrics involving the number of guerrilla attacks (put together at other web sites by people who tally military press releases) are significantly down. This being a guerrilla war, they do have the option of biding their time and coming back to fight another day. This is what some counter-insurgency experts mean when they say guerrillas can win by simply not losing.

At the same time, I think that maxim isn't entirely true - once people get used to the rhythms of a peacetime existence, I think it will be hard to wrench them back into the hell that is war. Especially the hell of downed power lines, broken plumbing, sewer lines and so on that were the fruits of the endless rounds of roadside bombings, not to mention the deaths of large numbers of Iraqi bystanders. My feeling is that the people who supported the guerrillas and have switched don't exactly like us, but don't exactly want to absorb any more of the consequences of fighting us the way the guerrillas are doing today - the random destruction of bystanders and infrastructure alike. And then there's the fact of guerrillas commandeering their sons for fighters, their daughters for wives (or worse) and their properties for ammo dumps.
 
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Ashley-the-man       5/31/2008 5:23:58 PM
 

Obama wins the presidency and runs in four years on his record in Iraq.

 

The following is taken from this August 2012 democratic nomination acceptance speech at the DNC national convention. For security reasons, the location of the convention was not divulged until a week before it opened at the airport Holiday Inn in Boise, Idaho. 

 

"When I took office our troop level in Iraq was 170,000 with great uncertainty that our continued and oppressive presence would not ignite another round of violence, even higher levels of American casualties and further huge drains on our national treasure. My first act as president was to authorize the reduction of our troop levels to 120,000. I was met with resistance from the military and the conservative media, but my action demonstrated to the peoples of Iraq and our adversaries, that the United States was committed to returning Iraq to the Iraqis. 

 

At the end of my second year in office, our troop levels were reduced to 75,000, with levels of violence that were rising ? were messy ? but were not destabilizing. My conversations with Iran brought them into Iraq to help al-Sadr maintain control in the Shia eastern regions of Iraq and Baghdad. 

 

Year three saw further troop reductions to 50,000 with some positive and negative actions in Iraq. Sporadic outbreaks of violence occurred, but were the normal reaction to a country that had suffered eight years of war from the time of the United States invasion. Iraqi government has not lived up to the unreasonable high ideals of the previous administration, but we must understand that Iraq is for Iraqis. Of growing concern from this administration is the Iraqi army trained by Americans has become brutal in suppressing dissent and expression of various groups. Future historians may note that we merely trained a more efficient killing machine than the one we overthrew. My policy toward Iraq will now focus on monitoring the excesses of the Iraqi army and police forces by enlisting the UN to send in teams to monitor complaints. It is time for the international community to send observers and offer comments and feedback to the Iraqi leadership and to the rest of the world.

 

Year four gives us a springboard to the future, with modest troop levels of 25,000, and low casualty rate, more reductions possible in my second term as our great nightmare is drawing to a close. I have kept my pledge to the American people to reduce troop levels and end this unnecessary war. 

 

Only now as troop levels and expenses in Iraq have been curtailed, can we turn to the issue of our nagging four year recession. Our spending in Iraq has kept us from addressing our many concerns for our less fortunate citizens, and others. Tax increases on the upper middle class and corporations have had the desired impact of shifting the tax burden away from the middle class. Unfortunately, corporations have continued, and accelerated their outsourcing of jobs. Our current unemployment rate of 10.2% can be laid directly at the feet of those would abandon America to chase profits where foreign workers can be exploited. As our population ages we have seen medical care costs continue to shoot up and all health costs continue to rise. 

 

We are faced with a crisis in medical care coverage. It is unfortunate that the bold plan put forth and promoted by former Vice President Hillary Clinton was brought down by the zealous efforts of our opponents and the setback concerning former President Clinton's alleged dealings in the medical care for Anwar oil legislation ? that is still under investigation and prohibits me from further comment.

 

As I pledged in 2008, our war in Iraq is behind us and it is now time, with your help, support, funds, and vote to move forward to solve the many other problems that our opponents have brought down upon us."

 

 

 

 

 
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Bob       5/31/2008 9:52:57 PM
2008 and 2009 are as crucial as ever. Diyala -> Nineveh -> Mosul as terror's / murderer's HQ is in check.

Baghdad is still the center of gravity, it seems.

And the drawdowns have begun. My friend at the DOD moved from Fallujah to Ramadi with the Marines two months ago. Turned out it was because Fallujah was handed over to the Iraqis.

I would describe Iraq as "fluid". So, America needs to throw its full political / moral weight behind our efforts. Tip the scales, hammer the points home. Either forcibly gag Reid, Pelosi and crew or offer them political capital to join hands and say they were for success in Iraq all along. The greater good trumps the 2008 elections the D's are going to lose anyways.

 
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PowerPointRanger    Metrics   6/2/2008 3:45:15 AM
As has been discussed elsewhere on StrategyPage, there are certainly other metrics besides casualty levels.  To give an example, during the Battle of the Bulge the US suffered a spike in casualties (among the heaviest casualties of the war).  Yet this also was a decisive victory that ultimately ended Nazi Germany's ability to make war.
 
Casualties taken by themselves are not a very good measure.  But taken in context can suggest trends.  For example, casualties in the last two months were down substantially over the previous year, BUT this occurred during major offensives against enemy strongholds in both Basra and Baghdad.  The fact that casualties were relatively low at a time they should have been high suggests the bad guys are losing their ability to inflict casualties.
 
 
 
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DarthAmerica       6/2/2008 8:44:12 AM
The Iraq war has to be thought of in the context of a larger regional struggle. Ask yourself WHY we are there and the answer to the question is obvious.


-DA

 
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debugger    Have the parade   6/2/2008 11:01:51 PM

Iraq is as good as it gets.  Come home.  On the unchecked points in this topics header:

What is an effective government?  Are there any on the planet?  And why get rid of
all militias?   And what should we we have to to with Iraqi infrastructure?  As for defending Iraq,
presumably from Iran, let the Saudis and other Arab states do it.



 
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