New Canadian Medium Brigade Group

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Eagle601 RE:New Canadian Medium Brigade Group 7/9/2005 4:26:36 AM

Why use Fennecks to do jobs LAV derivatives can do just as well? All you do is complicate logistics without any improvement in capability.

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interestedamateur RE:New Canadian Medium Brigade Group 7/9/2005 7:22:34 AM

Clearly based on US Stryker brigades, with some refinements, such as the HIMARs. The Strker brigades have a full intelligence company at HQ level. Includes: analysis platoon, integration platoon, HUMINT platoon, weather team. You might want to consider beefing up your intelligence. It's a bit light on anti-tank weaponry - I'd be looking to get some Javelins in at Company level myself (separate from the Inf platoons). Prefer 6 or 8 weapons at arty battery level. I might also make TA a full battery in your arty btn; 1 platoon counterfire radar (i.e. with ARTHUR systems), 1 platoon UAV, 1 platoon sound ranging (HALO 2A). I'd go for LAV 4's (Piranha 4) - 25 tons versus 18.5 for LAV 3, but you get your 9 infantry, plus a turret on the vehicle with a 30mm cannon, and an extra 4 or so tons of armour which would help defeat RPGs. Much more power and protection, but can't transport them in a Hercules though. Being British we like our brigades to have a full engineer regiment rather than a Sqn. UK Battalions also have a pioneer platoon. Your logistic units are a bit light - go for a transport company and a supply company in your support battalion. British brigades have a logistic support regiment which has 2 transport Sqns and one supply sqn. Our close support medical regiments also have 2 medical companies. British brigades do however have 4 manoeuvre units (and often more) compared to your 3, so you might not want to go down this route. Couldn't see any anti-air or helicopters. Agree with Eagle on the recce LAVs. Or only keep one sqn for Fenneks and use it for deep observation SAS stylee. The new US light Brigades have one dismounted company in their Cav Regt - very useful for deep observation and long range arty targeting. Never happen 'cos of the expense etc.. but food for thought!

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interestedamateur RE:New Canadian Medium Brigade Group 7/9/2005 7:38:07 AM

US structures are well known, but I thought you might be interested to see a UK brigade orbat for comparison: 4 Maneouvre Battalions Artillery Regiment (3 batteries) Engineer Regiment (1 comp for each btn plus eng support comp) Logistic Support Regiment (2 trans comps, 2 supply comp) REME Battalion (2 companies) Medical Battalion (2 companies) Recce Regiment (3 companies. No organic UAVs) Brigade HQ and Signals Company Light brigades combine the logistic, medical and REME (repair) units into one regiment. Please note that I have simplified this slightly, because each brigade has differences which I can't be bothered to show!

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seantheaussie RE:New Canadian Medium Brigade Group 7/9/2005 6:44:50 PM

"""""""""" interestedamateur 4 Maneouvre Battalions Artillery Regiment (3 batteries) """"""""""""" less than a battery per maneouvre battalion? Unusual. How often does Canada deploy brigades compared to battle groups? If my impression of almost always battle groups is right the maxim train as you will fight suggests permanent battle groups with merely C&C brigade headquarters for when 2 or more battlegroups are deployed together.

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Ehran RE:New Canadian Medium Brigade Group 7/9/2005 7:29:03 PM

since the guys came home from germany deployments are a btn or under typically for peacekeeping operations.

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Maple Leaf RE:New Canadian Medium Brigade Group 8/3/2005 7:04:11 PM

The reason for the Fenneks is cost. The Coyote lacks commonality with the LAV-III anyway and a Fennek is a lot smaller, presents less of a target, requires only a 3-man crew rather then 4, and therefore would be cheaper. There is also a big argument that the Coyote is more of a stationary surveillance vehicle or observation post rather than a fast, stealth reconnaissance vehicle. I agree it is a strengthened Stryker brigade. That is the idea. The reason for the reduced artillery batteries and the lack of an air defence battery is simply lack of use. How often in peace support operations are these systems used. When is the last time Allied ground troops were ever threatened by enemy air strikes. The Allies rule the skies so why waste resources on air defence when the Army is lacking in so many more critical areas. Plus the HIMARS battery makes up for the smaller artillery batteries. I would slightly disagree with the combat service support issue. British brigades usually have a Brigade Support Squadron from the Division's Close Support Logistics Regiment, not the whole regiment. Likewise the EME Battalion has a close support and general support company. And only one close support medical squadron supports each brigade. The Canadian organization is similar, they just have mult-functional battalions. A close support service battalion and then a general support battalion in the support group. However, with the current Army Transformation these battalions are being combined into one. I agree the engineers should probably be upped to a regiment. The original option was having an engineer support squadron or regiment as part of the Role 3 support group. And more MI assets would be nice.

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interestedamateur RE:New Canadian Medium Brigade Group 8/4/2005 9:24:45 AM

"I would slightly disagree with the combat service support issue. British brigades usually have a Brigade Support Squadron from the Division's Close Support Logistics Regiment, not the whole regiment. Likewise the EME Battalion has a close support and general support company." With regard to logistic support, the TOE of UK Armd and Mech Brigades is changing (since Dec 2004). Basically the old structure of giving a brigade a Log Sqn from the Divisional close support regiment is ending, and in future each brigade will have a Logistic Regiment of two Trans Sqns and one supply Sqn. Honest! The reason for this change is that Brigades are far more likely to deploy than divisions, so it makes sense to provide support at that level. You are quite correct about the structure of the REME regiments. The point is that each UK Mech and Armd Brigade has a full REME regiment. I can send you links for all this if you really want me to! How you decide to equip your brigades is entirely up to you! Are you a wargamer per chance?

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Lawman RE:New Canadian Medium Brigade Group 8/5/2005 2:00:51 PM

It might be better to put together an ad hoc Brigade, i.e. have a number of infantry units, armour units (some with LAV-105 type, and some with a new MBT, for higher intensity ops). It would enable a composite Brigade, with the right balance of forces for the task. I like the HIMARS system, and it might be a good idea, allowing saturation fire, something not readily possible with normal artillery. I like the idea of a Canadian Stryker-type Brigade, though I am not sure how easily it would be supported. I think the whole concept of air transportability has to be thrown out, since there is no possibility of Canada having the 300+ C-130s needed. It also means having under-armoured vehicles, which are dangerous to use in combat. As for not bothering with air defence systems, I think it is very dangerous to lack that capability - if you find yourself up against an enemy with helicopters or light aircraft, they could easily survive an air war. The best fit might be the LAV-AD, with 25mm GAU-12, and Stinger missiles - good balance of capability, with the ability to engage ground targets as well. In addition, enemies are likely to start acquiring UAVs, and having the ability to engage them might be useful...

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seantheaussie RE:New Canadian Medium Brigade Group 8/5/2005 10:25:53 PM

"""""""""""" Lawman In addition, enemies are likely to start acquiring UAVs, and having the ability to engage them might be useful... """""""""" Completely agree. UAVs will inspire the comeback of AAA which also have excellent dual use against unarmored targets.

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Jungle-Man RE:New Canadian Medium Brigade Group 8/6/2005 12:17:05 AM

I still think that you need some heavy or at least medium armor to back all this force up. I mean I'm all for mobility but we should have gotten a replacement for the Leo-1 or at least gotten upgrade packages for them (God knows theres plenty around on the market), getting rid of our heavier armor altogether was a big mistake.

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