Military potential of Canada

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Ehran RE:Military potential of Canada 10/2/2004 5:07:20 PM

a ww2 type of commitment would give canada an armed forces of nearly 3 million. 5 years in we could be producing our own fighters, afv and warships in considerable quantities. we would be able to summarily crush all but 20 or 25 countries militaries in the world. it would call for total conversion of the economy to a war footing and about 5 years to make the changeover though.

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worldbuilder RE:Military potential of Canada 10/7/2004 11:51:36 AM

yes, canada could become a military giant, as someone here poitned out if israel can, we can too. canada has the scientific expertise and engineers to build pretty much anything the human race has created. natural resources are no problem, and training space... well... funding is another matter. you would need a real serious source of funding. israel gets more military assistance from america in a year than canada spends on defence in 5 years. germany also sends a huge classified amount of reparations per year. theres the huge cost of designing all the weapons systems, building all the factories that will do the building, employing a large-enough-to-be-significant force of military personnel, aggressive training for at least several years to achieve full operating capability, and the monetary resources to actually fight too. the iraq war is costing a fortune. this all adds up to a huge amount of money, and the canadian government's budget is way too small. either foreigners would have to provide the funding or some miraculous source of wealth equal in importance to oil in arabia is found inside canada. or canada does an all out mobilisation that cannibalises its economy and industry because it gets lots of advance notice that in 8 years WWIII is going to start or something like that. all of this would take a great amount of time too, while well trained engineers can achive miracles in terms of time, this would be an absolutely massive project. we could probably get help from european sources in terms of engineering assistance, they did just finish designing the hugely complex eurofighter. design of weapons systems, construction of factories, production of major weapons systems in sufficient quantity, training of combined arms forces would take at least 8 years in my opinion. israel also demands great sacrifices from its people, with males and females being, or having been drafted for terms like 2 years, at times. this all affects the economy, and education of the young people entering the work-force. but keep in mind, the people of israel are facing destruction and this casues teams to work better together and achieve miracles. the quality of your military still doesnt guarantee victory, as hitler found out. you need the right generals, and prime ministers to make the right strategic decisions. all of this activity would be making major waves in the world, other countries would notice right from the very beginning that something seriously big is happening. this would further casue our economy to crash as rumours spread and trust in our economy falls. and anytime during this 8 year process, a few well placed terror attacks could cripple the build up of forces. so, its very unlikely that any of this would happen, but if conditions are right, and luck plays along, it is possible. anything is possible, if the conditions are right. anyone know better?

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worldbuilder RE:Military potential of Canada 10/7/2004 11:59:48 AM

btw, military drafts are a touchy matter. if done wrongly, like in the CIS and formar warsaw pact, you get the lousiest soldiers in existence. if done right, like in germany or israel, you get almost as good soldiers for dirt cheap, en masse. this is a very important tool for advanced nations in their defence, but mainly for militaries facing a land threat. amry work can be done easily by draftees, but air force and navy work gets complexer than riding in an apc. while german draftees can choose the air force and navy and do desk jobs, not many can be taken in by those services, most are sent to the army for some kind of infantry training. this would not be optimal in canadas case, unless you are thinking about taking on america somehow. canada would be best off relying on complex weapons systems, like air force and navy, to protect its huge coasts, not ground forces. a draft would have to be very long to allow the draftees to gain enough skill and expertise to operate these complex weapons systems. a reserve modelled after the us national guard might be more appropriate.

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Ehran RE:Military potential of Canada 10/7/2004 1:22:56 PM

Assuming it was a "popular" war there would be no trouble filling the ranks. For a bunch of rabid pacifists canadians do seem to enjoy kicking someone's butt every generation or two. think it's the hockey fan coming out in us. course with the hockey season screwed this year we have no outlet for our collective agressions. hmm just the same time as the pols announce an increase in the size of the armed forces. coincedence that?

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Maple man RE:Military potential of Canada 10/7/2004 10:26:51 PM

It's not the lack of funds it's the improper channelling of the funds that is the problem.We have a GDP of almost one trillion dollars with only 32 million people!This would be why we are G7.Nope our military isn,t small because of lack of money ,it's small because of lack of leadership.I think it is important for Canada to be a signifigant influence militarily to prevent any potential enemies from thinking we are just a simple speed bump on the road to war with our allies.I know politically we are respected but militarily,not likely.If we doubled our military spending from 9 billion to 20 billion per year that would make a huge difference,just the enough difference to maybe remind some of these rogue nations of today what Canada is capable of,and if necessary we would and could step in to aid our allies especially the Americans.

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wongmantak Why do we want Military power? What for? 11/3/2004 2:20:34 PM

Why do we want Military power? What for? Who want to attack us?

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bunglefoot RE:Why do we want Military power? What for? 11/3/2004 5:29:54 PM

Lessee... The Dutch, the Americans, the Chinese, the Spanish, and the French all top the list of people who will likely have plausible reason to attack in the next fifty years or so. Mostly due to control shipping and/or natural resources. Quite simply put if Canada does not start beefing up it's military now then you can expect many concessions to be made.

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Ehran RE:Why do we want Military power? What for? 11/4/2004 1:22:00 PM

it's also kinda handy to ensure that when a canuck citizen is in trouble and the canadian gov't protests that we don't get put on hold. kinda like that poor schmuck that got hauled off an airplane in NY then held without charge for a few days. then deported to syria where he spent 11(?) months in detention by the syrians being tortured periodically. meanwhile everyone involved is busy playing pass the buck and "who me?". i mean can you imagine the uproar if we dragged some poor yank off a plane in toronto and sent him to frickin cuba to be a guest of the DGI.

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gf0012-aust JSF fighter decisions 12/13/2004 9:23:24 PM

Double post from the Australian section. I thought you blokes might be interested in what's happening with us as there appears to be some Canadian involvement at various points. You may be in the market for our upgraded Hornets. Details of the Australian Hornet Upgrades: (In Oz we refer to the modified Hornets as "Hug Bugs" (The "Bug" being our nickname for the Hornet) F/A-18 Hornet Upgrade (HUG) Program The Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) F/A-18 A/B weapon system is a primary asset in Australia's air defence. Project AIR 5376, the Hornet Upgrade (HUG) Program, seeks to enhance the ability of the RAAF's F/A-18 to carry out its Air Defence Strategic Concept tasks, through to the expected Life of Type in 2015. The RAAF's fleet of 71 F/A-18 A/Bs (55 A-single seat models and 16 B-dual seat models) are currently being upgraded under Phase 1 of the HUG Program. Boeing Military Aircraft and Missile systems in St Louis (USA) is the prime contractor for this project, and Boeing Australia Limited has been sub-contracted to carry out the aircraft modification work at RAAF Base Williamtown. HUG Phase 1 Engineering Design and Development Stage 1 modifications are currently underway. The primary capability improvements being procured under HUG Phase 1 are: Incorporation of AN/ARC-210 (V) radios with HAVEQUICK II and Single Channel Ground-to-Air Radio System (SINCGARS) anti-jam appliqués; A sixth Avionics Multiplex Bus; XN-8+ Mission Computers; An Embedded Global Positioning System/Inertial Navigation System (EGI); A Combined Interrogator Transponder (CIT); and Extend the Armament Multiplex Bus (ARMUX) to the disconnects of both wingtips, to support fitment of a digital missile. Upon completion of HUG Phase 1 Engineering Design and Development (Stage 1), subsequent stages of modification will be actioned, as detailed below: Stage 2 Modifications The Aircraft Modification Validation and Verification (Val/Ver) Type Acceptance Test and Evaluation Program (Stage 2) modifies two RAAF F/A-18 aircraft, one Lot VII A model aircraft (single) and one Lot VII B model aircraft (dual seat). Stage 3 Modifications Upon completion of the Val/Ver, the Stage 3 Production Aircraft Modification Incorporation Program to modify the remaining RAAF F/A-18 fleet aircraft will commence in October 2000. Warranty Modifications RAAF Performance Warranty modifications are incorporated in conjunction with the HUG Phase 1, Stage 2 and Stage 3 modifications on a non-interference basis. These modifications enhance the structural fatigue life of the aircraft Extract from "The Australia/NZ Defence Industry & Aerospace Report On-Line" "Senior defence committees are reportedly set to consider before the end of the year the merit of unsolicited proposals to position the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) to embrace an interim strike fighter acquisition/lease after 2005 to fill the widening gap until a fully combat effective Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) can be declared to be operational in the ADF in the years after 2015. The investment committee proposal looks at the current status of the F/A-18 'Hornet' upgrade (HUG), as well as escalating costs as the HUG moves into the phase 3 approval stage, and seeks to compare that situation with the cost/capability advantages of suspending phase 3 in preference for a short-term purchase/lease of more contemporary aircraft such as the F/A-18 E/F 'Super Hornet', latest upgrade F-15s or indeed, the Eurofighter 'Typhoon'." plus: "Favouring the F/A-18 E/F approach is understood to be a Canadian Government interest in picking-up Australia's currently HUG'ed F/A-18s to fill a capability gap recently identified by an official Auditor-General's report (see DIAR.com, 26 November 2004). With its own JSF requirement likely to be pushed out beyond 2020, the theory is that Canada would acquire/lease the bulk of Australia's F/A-18 fleet to supplement its own 'Hornet' fleet (currently undergoing a centre-barrel replacement program) to fulfil expanded national security requirements. Australia would then buy/lease up to 50 'E/F' Super Hornets for a minimum of ten years, with such aircraft then being passed onto the Canadians after 2015 to fill a similar capability gap as that country similarly decided at which point it would formally require fully combat capable JSF deliveries of its own. Re-structuring of Boeing's F/A-18 E/F production line in St Louis to the dicates of 'Lean' manufacturing is progressively providing a capability to provide new aircraft within 18 months of a formal acquisition contract being signed."

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gf0012-aust JSF fighter decisions - oops 12/13/2004 9:31:48 PM

sorry gents, I put the most relevant part at the wrong end of the prev post! The stuff of real canadian interest is down the bottom. apols in advance of the flames. ;)

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