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Subject: Military potential of Canada
Maple man    9/29/2004 11:24:26 PM
Could Canada become a military giant,and if yes,HOW?
 
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Ehran    RE:Military potential of Canada   9/30/2004 1:40:34 PM
well the only really important thing standing in the way of our becoming a military giant is that there are only 32 million of us in toto. well i suppose the fact canadians really aren't interested in throwing our weight around is a considerable factor also.
 
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Maple man    RE:Military potential of Canada   9/30/2004 9:23:55 PM
Population has nothing to do with it,because look at Israel(7 million),North Korea(22 million),South Korea(50 million),so on and so on.I do agree though tha tpopulation support is a problem but until Canada is seriously threatened the people her will not care.When have we been under substantial threat by anyone?
 
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southern cross    RE:Military potential of Canada   10/1/2004 3:31:15 AM
"Could Canada become a military giant,and if yes,HOW " the only hope, brain transplats to all of your political leaders and to most of your voters.
 
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Maple man    RE:Military potential of Canada   10/1/2004 8:59:27 AM
lol thats a good one!
 
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StymiestxBlitz    RE:Military potential of Canada   10/1/2004 5:12:39 PM
lol Well I am not an advocate of conscription although I think it would be good for some of the assholes in our country at the moment especially for all those teens my age that think theya re king .
 
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Maple man    RE:Military potential of Canada   10/1/2004 9:07:42 PM
applaud,thats hitting the nail on the head,some of these kids need to toss the Playstation and get more physical,and the armed forces are an excellent place to start!
 
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gf0012-aust    RE:Military potential of Canada   10/1/2004 9:36:52 PM
The issue for Canada is that she is clearly a latent power. She has alreadt demonstrated that she can fight in 1812, WW1 and WW2. latency also apllies to the fact that she can gear up into a war cycle very very quickly if needed. She's a latent nuclear power and like Oz has the advantage of being a difficult target to take on due to a harsh buffered environment that would make logistics and sustained placement difficult for an invader. Plus you have the damocles advantage of being immersed into the US economy through association. You may not always agree with your southern neighbour - but you sure as hell still get to reap the rewards of cross trade (although NAFTA issues may not always make that so apparent). In a sense I've always considered that Canada and Australia are very hard nuts to take on at an intercontinental level - we have similar traits, similar demographic advantages and similar capabilities. You have the advantage of a bigger population and the capacity to gain advantage off the US economy. I think that much like Australia, you're a country that shouldn't be pi$$ed off by others, as when you make a committment to go to war, your resolve and your capability to conduct warfighting at its absolute potential is rather apparent. Something has to be done about losing your technical capability at the warfighting level though - you're a bloody big version of NZ at the moment. ;)
 
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Maple man    RE:Military potential of Canada   10/1/2004 10:05:16 PM
The Canadian people are too reliant on the Americans now where as back in the Wars you spoke of we were not,at least not as much.Our major ally then was of course Britain,when The Brits went to war so did the Canadians,it was simply automatic no questions asked.Where our power is is in our GDP and our capacity to produce,build and buy what we need to wage a war.THIS is why NZ is nothing like us Canucks,no offence to them but they simply do not have the natural resources or manpower needed to produce any sort of war machine,even though when they were called upon during war times they more than dished out their share of asswhoopin to the enemies they encountered.
 
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StymiestxBlitz    RE:Military potential of Canada   10/1/2004 11:15:51 PM
I highly doubt canada would be able to make such a significant contribution this day in age as they did in the past. I just don't see our countrymen being as devout as they once were. Hypothetically speaking we coul dprobably crank out an army of 4 million if the need would ever arise.
 
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Ehran    RE:Military potential of Canada   10/2/2004 4:58:44 PM
conscription pretty much guarantees mediocrity in your forces though. one of our pro's would be that the guys in the forces are committed with a high percentage being lifers.
 
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Ehran    RE:Military potential of Canada   10/2/2004 5:07:20 PM
a ww2 type of commitment would give canada an armed forces of nearly 3 million. 5 years in we could be producing our own fighters, afv and warships in considerable quantities. we would be able to summarily crush all but 20 or 25 countries militaries in the world. it would call for total conversion of the economy to a war footing and about 5 years to make the changeover though.
 
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worldbuilder    RE:Military potential of Canada   10/7/2004 11:51:36 AM
yes, canada could become a military giant, as someone here poitned out if israel can, we can too. canada has the scientific expertise and engineers to build pretty much anything the human race has created. natural resources are no problem, and training space... well... funding is another matter. you would need a real serious source of funding. israel gets more military assistance from america in a year than canada spends on defence in 5 years. germany also sends a huge classified amount of reparations per year. theres the huge cost of designing all the weapons systems, building all the factories that will do the building, employing a large-enough-to-be-significant force of military personnel, aggressive training for at least several years to achieve full operating capability, and the monetary resources to actually fight too. the iraq war is costing a fortune. this all adds up to a huge amount of money, and the canadian government's budget is way too small. either foreigners would have to provide the funding or some miraculous source of wealth equal in importance to oil in arabia is found inside canada. or canada does an all out mobilisation that cannibalises its economy and industry because it gets lots of advance notice that in 8 years WWIII is going to start or something like that. all of this would take a great amount of time too, while well trained engineers can achive miracles in terms of time, this would be an absolutely massive project. we could probably get help from european sources in terms of engineering assistance, they did just finish designing the hugely complex eurofighter. design of weapons systems, construction of factories, production of major weapons systems in sufficient quantity, training of combined arms forces would take at least 8 years in my opinion. israel also demands great sacrifices from its people, with males and females being, or having been drafted for terms like 2 years, at times. this all affects the economy, and education of the young people entering the work-force. but keep in mind, the people of israel are facing destruction and this casues teams to work better together and achieve miracles. the quality of your military still doesnt guarantee victory, as hitler found out. you need the right generals, and prime ministers to make the right strategic decisions. all of this activity would be making major waves in the world, other countries would notice right from the very beginning that something seriously big is happening. this would further casue our economy to crash as rumours spread and trust in our economy falls. and anytime during this 8 year process, a few well placed terror attacks could cripple the build up of forces. so, its very unlikely that any of this would happen, but if conditions are right, and luck plays along, it is possible. anything is possible, if the conditions are right. anyone know better?
 
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worldbuilder    RE:Military potential of Canada   10/7/2004 11:59:48 AM
btw, military drafts are a touchy matter. if done wrongly, like in the CIS and formar warsaw pact, you get the lousiest soldiers in existence. if done right, like in germany or israel, you get almost as good soldiers for dirt cheap, en masse. this is a very important tool for advanced nations in their defence, but mainly for militaries facing a land threat. amry work can be done easily by draftees, but air force and navy work gets complexer than riding in an apc. while german draftees can choose the air force and navy and do desk jobs, not many can be taken in by those services, most are sent to the army for some kind of infantry training. this would not be optimal in canadas case, unless you are thinking about taking on america somehow. canada would be best off relying on complex weapons systems, like air force and navy, to protect its huge coasts, not ground forces. a draft would have to be very long to allow the draftees to gain enough skill and expertise to operate these complex weapons systems. a reserve modelled after the us national guard might be more appropriate.
 
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Ehran    RE:Military potential of Canada   10/7/2004 1:22:56 PM
Assuming it was a "popular" war there would be no trouble filling the ranks. For a bunch of rabid pacifists canadians do seem to enjoy kicking someone's butt every generation or two. think it's the hockey fan coming out in us. course with the hockey season screwed this year we have no outlet for our collective agressions. hmm just the same time as the pols announce an increase in the size of the armed forces. coincedence that?
 
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Maple man    RE:Military potential of Canada   10/7/2004 10:26:51 PM
It's not the lack of funds it's the improper channelling of the funds that is the problem.We have a GDP of almost one trillion dollars with only 32 million people!This would be why we are G7.Nope our military isn,t small because of lack of money ,it's small because of lack of leadership.I think it is important for Canada to be a signifigant influence militarily to prevent any potential enemies from thinking we are just a simple speed bump on the road to war with our allies.I know politically we are respected but militarily,not likely.If we doubled our military spending from 9 billion to 20 billion per year that would make a huge difference,just the enough difference to maybe remind some of these rogue nations of today what Canada is capable of,and if necessary we would and could step in to aid our allies especially the Americans.
 
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