Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Surface Forces Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: Vulcan 20mm gun in RN?
Jack Tarr    11/23/2005 6:42:44 AM
I watched a TV program last night on BBC1, "Shipmates", which is basically about life in the RN, and especially follows the deployment of HMS Chatham (Batch 3 Type 22) to the Gulf, late last year/early this year.(yeah, I know, I'm an anchor faced B****d) One thing caught my eye that I was unaware of. The Chatham seemed to be fitted with a Vulcan 20mm gun? (Not the Phalanx CIWS, but "hand operated" minigun type thing.(I think they may be called Sea Vulcans, and are fitted to Japanese Mine Countermeasure vessels, and Israeli Saar's, among others) I had no idea the RN had started fitting these? Does anyone have any info on whether this is just a trial, or have they been widely distributed to the fleet? Any info (or thoughts/comments) would be appreciated.
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Pages: 1 2
Yimmy    RE:Vulcan 20mm gun in RN?   11/23/2005 11:48:39 AM
It was just a 7.62mm mini-gun. They have been fitted to deal with the suicide fast boat threat. Waste of space if you ask me. Would be better off just fitting a few extra GPMG's. I liked the M3 .50 cal on the Lynx though. Something which I found funny, was when they were testing their rifles off the stern... no targets or anything... I fail to see what the point of the endevour was.
 
Quote    Reply

Jack Tarr    RE:Vulcan 20mm gun in RN?   11/23/2005 11:58:38 AM
Yimmy: Ah I see...thanks for the info. Do you know if these are just fitted to ships heading for the Gulf? (and I'm guessing 1 each side...port/starboard?) "Something which I found funny, was when they were testing their rifles off the stern... no targets or anything... I fail to see what the point of the endevour was" Yimmy. Agreed, quite pointless. I remember when we were on our way to Armilla Patrol we'd at least chuck some gash bags over the side and shoot them up.(something to aim at)
 
Quote    Reply

Yimmy    RE:Vulcan 20mm gun in RN?   11/23/2005 12:03:01 PM
Yeah, I would have thought they would have had the helicopter or a fast boat drop off some flotation devices or something to use as targets on the way past... But really, I think far more sensible is for them to have their rifles tested and zeroed before leaving Portsmouth. Come to think of it - in the Navy are rifles individual issue and zeroed such, or is just a matter of sign out any and hope its about on? "Do you know if these are just fitted to ships heading for the Gulf? (and I'm guessing 1 each side...port/starboard?)" I don't know. At a guesstimate, I would say the MoD didn't buy enough to fit them to all our ships, so yes, just the Gulf.
 
Quote    Reply

Fedaykin    Minigun vs GPMG   11/23/2005 1:40:22 PM
I missed that program (had a feeling I was missing something that night). Whilst the GPMG would certainly do the job I think the reason that they are making use of the minigun is its far higher cyclic rate. If they wanted to stop a speed boat carrying Suicide bombers etc... the mini gun will place alot more lead on the target than the GPMG. On the same subject the RN recently signed an order with ATK to upgrade the DS30M Mk2 Naval Mounting with the 30/40mm Mk44 Bushmaster Cannon system. This gun has a dual feed system which allows the operator to select different ammunition types.
 
Quote    Reply

doggtag    RE:Minigun vs GPMG   11/23/2005 2:31:07 PM
I saw an article about that system a few weeks back, Fedaykin. The benefit of it is that it can fit various optical sensors, including zoom-capable TV which can get you better pinpointing of your target. A 30mm APFSDS dart will take out a small watercraft's engine block at considerable distance with minimal dispersion, as it will also the individual piloting the watercraft. I think the idea of using miniguns as opposed to single-barrel MGs could also be psychological: if your adversary sees a steady column of spray slowly walking into his boat by the hundreds of rounds impacting the water, he may have less faith in his almighty than when he started his mission of terror. You add to the effect of a minigun when you make every other round a tracer, rather than every 1 in 5 or 10. Who cares about tracers from a ship: I'm certain he already sees you. But it gives him an idea just how much lead is flying his way. And it's just so damn cool to watch! A single-barrel MG offering 600-900rpm just might not give a big enough chance of doing enough damage or discouragement to the attacker. But several hundred more rounds in the same amount of time (minigun at 4000-6000rpm equals 66-100 rounds/sec) stands a much better chance at hitting and disabling him. Of course, firing non-incendiary bullets might leave you with a semi-intact terror boat packed with explosives, useful evidence to support your cause. But hitting him with a few 30mm rounds would definitely detonate him quite easily, leaving little evidence behind. And a minigun has a much shorter effective close-in distance (can be safely fired closer to the ship it's mounted on) than a cannon, something to take into effect when in a port area surrounded by numerous commercial traffic. The idea has come full circle, really: Dr Richard Gatling's first attempts to market an electric version of his gun were for a weapon suitable for (US) navy ships to ward off close-range threats, offering a rate as high as 3000rpm. The biggest problem would've been feeding the weapon: we didn't get ideal high-volume linkless feed systems until the 1950s when Project Vulcan brought the gatling gun back to life.
 
Quote    Reply

Jack Tarr    RE:Vulcan 20mm gun in RN?   11/24/2005 5:05:53 AM
"I think far more sensible is for them to have their rifles tested and zeroed before leaving Portsmouth. Come to think of it - in the Navy are rifles individual issue and zeroed such, or is just a matter of sign out any and hope its about on?" :-Yimmy I don't know if anything has changed (and I doubt it has) but small arms are not individually issued in the RN, and we were never bothered by the issue of "zeroing", though this was probably done by the gunnery types before they handed out small arms.(SLR's in my day...SA80's were just beginning to reach the fleet) The weapons were kept in secure lockers, and the average Jack wouldn't see them unless it was a special occassion.(for Ships Guard, boarding/inspection excercise, intruder excercise, offing spare ammo on return from a patrol as a bit of a jolly) Even when I was Upper Deck Sentry when the ship was alongside somewhere, we were only issued 9mm Browning pistols.(Though I think this HAS changed, and they are issued SA80's now, I believe) What with the increased terrorist threats (e.g USS Cole etc)the RN may have put more focus on small arms training now, and quite rightly too.
 
Quote    Reply

Fedaykin    RE:Vulcan 20mm gun in RN?   11/24/2005 8:07:43 AM
Thanks Doggtag your thinking about the use of the minigun is close to mine.
 
Quote    Reply

tiff    over the side is over   11/24/2005 3:28:08 PM
All those enviro-friendlies stopped the RN ditching gash - unless of course its the dead of night just before rounds and you were confident the skipper wasn't going round in a big circle - so no target practice there. When I was on a leander we used SMG's. It took all my efforts just to hit a bit of sea shooting one of those with a pitching rolling frigate between your legs.
 
Quote    Reply

Yimmy    RE:over the side is over   11/24/2005 7:34:38 PM
Is anyone else getting images of that Dad's Army episode?
 
Quote    Reply

Jack Tarr    RE:over the side is over, Yimmy   11/25/2005 3:54:46 AM
"They don't like it up 'em sir!" "Don't panic, don't panic!" :) P.S. Tiff, I've just replied to your "whose the poor sod" thread, before I realised you were ex-Andrew.(With a name like Tiff I should've realised) Sorry if it sounds like I'm teaching you to suck eggs, but I wrote it with the international audience in mind.
 
Quote    Reply
1 2



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics