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Subject: Naval/Marine Coastal Artillery
Iano    4/29/2005 6:41:56 PM
Watching a DVD "State of Alert", which is mostly about the modern RN, there is a section on the Swedish Military where the line between land and sea forces becomes rather blurred in the dotted islands and fjords of the Sweden. Apparently the Swedes are doing something no-one else has even conceived of - they are using land forces to engage sea forces. Think about it - sea forces engage land, air and sea, air engages land, air and sea, and land can engage air and land - but there is no reverse-direction version of shore bombardment, no equivalent of the coastal artillery today. Swedish artillery units (not sure whether army or marine) train at engaging ships in coastal waters. I am thinking how hard would it be to establish a system for firing a Harpoon or other anti shipping missile, from a launching post or from a vehicle? The latest Harpoon version will be able to take on targets ashore so I cant see why it cant be used from ashore against targets at sea. In a littoral environment, like the Swedes find themselves in, or in an amphibious operation where you might find a beachead trapped between the enemies army and naval forces, the system would have its uses. Take the Gulf for example. Mine clearing work went on for a year, after the main fighting warships had done their job and been removed. Now if you have MCMVs going about their work in a coastal area with small fast boats, usual coastal merchant & shipping activity, piracy and weapons smuggling, and no, or few, escorting vessels, that must be a liability. Having a few land based Harpoons would give you a protected area over those ships without the massive cost of deploying a taskforce. Ian
 
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EW3    RE:Naval/Marine Coastal Artillery   5/8/2005 8:46:58 AM
7.62 ammunition is kind of lightweight. Imagine if it were 12.5MM or 20MM. Harder to repair that damage.
 
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Iano    RE:Naval/Marine Coastal Artillery   5/8/2005 12:00:25 PM
Anyone got a link on the UK vehicle mounted Sea Skua? Ian
 
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Heorot    RE:Naval/Marine Coastal Artillery   5/8/2005 12:30:36 PM
EADS website here http://www.eads.net/frame/lang/en/800/content/OF00000000400004/6/18/561186.html Not much but it's all I could find.
 
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Iano    RE:Naval/Marine Coastal Artillery   5/8/2005 12:50:46 PM
Thanks! Well, I never knew there were such things! Nobody knows if any nation actually deploys the vehicle mounted Sea Skua do they? I'm pretty sure I havent heard of it in British service! I always thought, what about mounting Sea Skua on Archer class patrol boats, at the side of the superstructure or at the rear, in a forward facing slanted launcher. Coupled with some sort of MG/chaingun on the bow, it would give these fast patrol boats, or harbour protection boats officially in wartime I believe, a bit more sting than no weapons at all! And surely if you can fit it on a Lynx, mounting it on a p2000 would not be too difficult. Do you think coastal artillery would be a Navy, Marine or Army responsibility? I always thought maritime patrol aircraft were a Navy responsibility, but apparently they all belong to the Airforce! Would be an interesting posting as an exchange guy though, RAF Kinloss or Lossiemouth or wherever it is they operate Nimrods! Ian
 
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Yimmy    RE:Naval/Marine Coastal Artillery   5/8/2005 1:33:33 PM
"The "corvette" in question was the Guerico, a French-built A69 type. It was hit by 3 84mm Carl Gustav projectiles and 1,200+ rounds of 7.62 ammunition - the latter suggests a rather busy sniper :). The damage was easily repaired." I think you are somewhat underestimating the effects. People shooting 7.62mm SLR's is obviously not going to do much damage, but a sniper landing rounds through the bridge windows would, and as such happened.
 
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Iano    RE:Naval/Marine Coastal Artillery   5/8/2005 2:07:58 PM
I concur here, after using a GPMG I could just imagine the effects of six belts of ammunition on anything or anybody not behind some real armour... It would ruin your entire day!
 
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EW3    RE:Naval/Marine Coastal Artillery - Sea Skua    5/8/2005 2:12:20 PM
Interesting. The US has a critter called a Sea Penquin, which is similar. Uses an INS/IR tracker. When you think about it, if you have an ASM with a 25NM range on a helicopter, you've got coastal artillery everywhere on the coast.
 
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Iano    RE:Naval/Marine Coastal Artillery   5/8/2005 2:18:15 PM
If an amphibious assault is going in, then air supremacy, or at least superiority, has to be established first for it to work realistically. In the midst of all those overflying fast jets and fighters, I cant imagine it being very pleasant for a slow flying helicopter to take to the air to fire its missiles to defeat incoming craft. Although where the air situation isnt so one-sided I can see the great benefits in speed and flexibility helos bring. But on the other hand, if I couldnt take to the air it'd still be reassuring to have some way of hitting that shipping! Ian
 
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fitz    RE:Naval/Marine Coastal Artillery   5/9/2005 6:37:25 AM
Penguin is a Norwegian missile. The American's are merely a customer. Helicopter-launched ASM's devestated the Iraqi navy in 1991.
 
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EW3    RE:Naval/Marine Coastal Artillery - Iano   5/9/2005 6:49:46 AM
"In the midst of all those overflying fast jets and fighters, I cant imagine it being very pleasant for a slow flying helicopter" Agree 100%. But the latest helos also have A2A weapons. But your point still very valid, and is why some kind of land based ASM would be useful. I don't see why we could not mount them on Humvees much like we have put AMRAAMs on them. The combination of wheeled vehicles with SAMs and ASMs could ruin an attackers day. The guys in the air and on the water are much more vulnerable than Humvees on land.
 
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