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Subject: How will US navy protect against hi-speed missiles like Sunburn
reefdiver    2/16/2005 6:23:46 PM
The 3M-82 Moskit "Sunburn" does mach 2.1 and has a complex flight pattern. I assume there are other similar class anti-ship missiles with even faster ones on the way. Can the US Navy really defend against such fast and low flying missiles - and how (other than stay out of range)?
 
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EW3    RE:How will US navy protect against hi-speed missiles like Sunburn   5/13/2005 4:19:46 PM
In a threat situation we will always have OTH capability via aircraft. Even SAGs (a rare commodity now adays) will get someone to cover them, USAF or USN AWACS or a landbased UAV in the future. At the minimum they can usually put up their MH-60R which has a system that can track 255 targets at once. And due to altitude can expand the radar horizon, and (I'm guessing here) some sort of illuminating device.
 
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EW3    RE:IR generated by hi-speed missiles   5/23/2005 7:26:36 PM
With a missile like the sunburn, wouldn't the tip get pretty hot due to friction at M2.1 at 100ft altitude? Most of the planes that do M2+ are doing it at 20K feet and up where the air is much thinner. I would think at an altitude of 100 feet they'd be an obvious IR target.
 
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The Lizard King    Commonsense and causal observations.   5/24/2005 12:36:59 PM
You can try to jam them, however, given the difficulty the US is experiencing in dealing with RPGs, well you can draw your own conclusions....
 
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gf0012-aust    RE:Commonsense and causal observations.   5/24/2005 7:22:08 PM
"You can try to jam them, however, given the difficulty the US is experiencing in dealing with RPGs, well you can draw your own conclusions.... " that's not even remotely close to create an "extrapolation model". In fact it'c completely fallacious. SeaSnakes and Vandals (let alone all the other myriad of systems tools) have been popping faster and more evasive weapons than an RPG for over 30 years.
 
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YelliChink    RE:Commonsense and causal observations.   5/25/2005 1:39:35 AM
There are still some towed decoy for radar and heat homing seekers on the shelf. Any navy can just buy them or build them on their own. Just wonder how effective it would be.
 
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EW3    RE:Commonsense and causal observations. YC   5/25/2005 1:48:15 AM
I gather these things work pretty well - http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/mk-53.htm
 
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Kozzy    Defensive Systems   5/25/2005 9:38:51 AM
Batteries of "Metal Storm" weapons that fire fuzed 40mm AHEAD. That would shred the out any incoming missles.
 
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Shooter    RE:How will US navy protect against hi-speed missiles like Sunburn   5/25/2005 10:21:02 PM
The USN was the first, by two or three decades to use super sonic long range missiles! Read up on TALOS! We also had a target missile called ASLAT that would do M-2.5 at sea level and M-4.5 at altitude. They both had complex flight profiles and proved easy to intercept by several different systems. Speed by it self does not make it harder to intercept a missile. It only reduces your reaction time and thus the desigion making interval. Ageis and several other programs have proven the ability to intercept any missile in a low dencity environment, such as an attack on ships at sea. In the future, it can only get simpler as the Avionics get better and less costly. Missile maneuverability is reduced by the resiprocal of the square of the speed. faster missiles are thus easier to intercept in some ways.
 
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Darth Squirrel    RE:How will US navy protect against hi-speed missiles like Sunburn   5/26/2005 9:35:17 PM
I think it bears pointing out that any enemy that would potentially use ASMs against the US Navy would probably be well aware of all that has been discussed here. I think American military strategists often overlook the fact that the enemy likely knows the limitations of their own systems and will not seek to use them in a manner that the US is prepared for, has trained for, and has developed effect countermeasures / systems for. The most likely country to use high-tech anti-ship weapons against the US in the near future is China - there seems to be an agreement on this point. I don't think we can expect the Chinese to launch dozens of missiles at a carrier so they can be shot down by AEGIS warships all neat and textbook like. And as a previous poster noted, even if they do attack in such a fashion, if they throw up 100 missiles any admiral is going to be quite concerned that a couple will get through - and no disrespect intended but a faster missile = less time to shoot it down. Whatever goes down, if it does, is going to be dirty. If I'm a Chief of Staff, I'm thinking more than anything else: can I effectively defend my battlegroup without the aid of my satellites? How effectively have our eroded ASW techniques been reconstituted? Do I need to defend against nuclear weapons (a real possibilty)? So far I do not see our potential enemies the Chinese being dumb enough to walk into the AEGIS sucker punch we've been developing since the 80s. Expect more.
 
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EW3    RE:Darth Squirrel    5/26/2005 9:56:42 PM
I don't expect our fleet to put itself in range of ground launched cruise missiles. We may move ships as far south as near taiwan. That is well over 100NM from the nearest point of land belonging to the ChiComs, and out of range of their sunburns. They only have 2 ships capable of launching them, which I expect won't last long if they come out of port.
 
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