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Subject: Diplomacy The Middle Eastern Way
SYSOP    7/30/2015 5:05:54 AM
 
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Nate Dog    Meh   7/30/2015 7:41:47 PM
Competitive with whom?
US economy will be closing on 17 trillion USD GDP this year. Russian economy 1/10th that size. So, clearly, competing with US forces is madness and well outside the scope of budgetary realities. 
Building SSBN's and SSN's is a feeder from a bygone era but a lucky one none the less for the post Soviets. It still allows them to be mighty, at least in this facet. 
As for surface forces, again, compete with whom?
Their economy is still less than half of Germany's or Britains, or Frances, so again, being able to build comparable navies is unlikely, factoring in the expenditure of keeping its large nuclear submarine forces in play.
 
Russia should aim for a smaller long range yet lethal surface force pool, concentrating more on the littorals.
Miniaturisation has allowed even pocket frigates, 2000 tons, to be long range and still provide good surface combat skills, plus good enough AA and ASW. A force of a few dozen large corvettes or small frigates, should do the job. Retire the Kirovs, that ridiculous carrier that's 10 years past retirement, build support vessels and small frigates. At least that way the Rodina still has a good enough navy that can live within its means.
 
 
 
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trenchsol       7/30/2015 9:14:27 PM
We have discussed it here already. It would be very difficult for Russian surface warships to reach high seas in times of conflict. They are in position similar to one of Germany in both world wars. 
 
During WWI German Fleet tried to challenge Royal Navy in several battles, but failed to break the blockade. Other important activity was commerce raiding. The most famous ship of that purpose was SMS Emden, a light cruiser which attacked cargo ships  from Indian Ocean to Pacific.
 
During WWII German Fleet has not tried to challenge RN, but focused on commerce raiding, sending cruisers and fast battleships into Atlantic Ocean and North Sea. Neither of those ships lasted long, either they were spotted and sunk (Bismarck, Scharnhorst, Admiral Graf Spee), or forced to retreat to occupied French port of Brest. Technology made much harder for raiders to remain out of sight.
 
My guess is that today it would be almost impossible for surface warship to slip out from Russian port and remain undetected in the Atlantic or some other ocean. However, nuclear submarine can fulfill role of commerce raiding without a problem. It stands a good chance to slip out, remain undetected, without need of getting resupplied.
 
That questions the purpose of Russian surface warships, probably limiting them to littoral role, as Nate Dog said. My guess is that Russians have similar thoughts. It looks like there are two schools of thinking. One would like to keep the costs down and limit surface fleet, while the other would want to 'rule the seas'. During purchase period for Mistral class ship, Russia had second thoughts, the purpose have been questioned openly, until the whole thing was cancelled by France. I think it illustrates the dilemma.
 
 
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frylock    Keffler?   7/31/2015 5:20:04 AM
What has happened to you? Are you still there?
 
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Yimmy       8/1/2015 6:34:18 PM
Russia should build a sustainable navy to their advantages - wooden construction and sail power!  I would add ore power, but with the Russian population in decline I'm not sure that counts as a resource :)
 
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donstrock       8/1/2015 7:14:06 PM

What has happened to you? Are you still there?

I miss him as well...
 
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ATC619       8/2/2015 5:38:05 PM

What has happened to you? Are you still there?

I miss him as well...Indeed.  I didn't always agree with his takes, but he knows enough to carry on a good conversation
 
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ATC619    Maybe....   8/2/2015 5:39:16 PM
If we all troll LCS topics he'll come back.
 
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Nate Dog    where oh where is Keffler   8/3/2015 7:16:53 AM
LCS,
Don't forget Textrons non selling plane.
Mention that too.
That always pissed him off.
He was a useful source of information.
 
 
 
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trenchsol       8/3/2015 2:09:48 PM
HR is gone, too... Perhaps  Keffler lost motivation. Or, perhaps site administrator got involved because of their frequent fights.
 
 
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frylock    The many faces of Sybil   8/4/2015 8:48:24 AM
Just throwing this out there/// maybe, just maybe, Keffler and HR are THE SAME PERSON! Ywo personalities fighting for control of the same body!
 
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