Spam much?

 

Brazil will want to build locally - there's way too much of a push to get their local industry up and running - license building something would be an excellent start for that but I think a 65Kt carrier is a bit much for them to take on just yet. Buying the QE off the peg doesn't fit for them. And we need two carriers - our nearest neighbours have demonstrated that having one carrier is insufficient.

Escorts? We can generate a pair of very modern AWD's plus ASW from attached Type 23's and an escorting SSN - that's about as good as it gets and is world class.

I'd like more hull numbers of course but if a carrier sails, we can cover it,

Ian

 

I figure the QE will probably end up in Brazil/Spain in 20 years or so, operating some sort of VSTOL aircraft.  Brazil will have the money to support it, and their current flat top is getting old.  Same goes for Spain, though if it goes there, it will have a reduced wing size, similar to what their current carrier has.  The PoW will probably get built, but won't get used much. They won't have the escorts needed for a true carrier group either, so how effective they will be in a conflict without the USN is up in the air.

Buying it new; India, USMC, jv with France

Buying it after a few years of operation while the PoW is built: India, Italy, Spain, Brazil, Thailand, Japan

India already has two or three carriers in progress - given the speed at which Indian MOD purchases move, there's no way that a new buy fits into their timescale. USMC makes no sense, they need a number of smaller carriers and they're already building that class now.  Joint venture with France? In an entirely practical and wonderful alternate reality, we'd persuade France to come in on the two carrier fitout costs in return for a lease option on a carrier capability from us. I emphasise, "carrier capability" - not a specific hull. We need about 1 and 1/3 carriers to ensure 100% availability of one carrier, ditto France. In a fantasy world where everyone just talked to each other and stuff, France would pitch in some cash to get both carriers fitted out to CATOBAR, with a common fit for comms, radar and so forth. 

We'd then rotate our use of carriers between the two hulls as would France, co-ordinating refits and downtime, meaning both hulls would be utilised quite efficiently, with adequate downtime for both hulls over the service life of the carriers, and we'd both be able to generate carrier capability reliably every day of the year. Ideally we'd combine that by us chipping in to buy some more E2's and operate a common fleet of E2's as a shared asset in the same way that the E3's are a NATO asset, not a national one.

That's *total* fantasy but it'd be brilliant for both countries to do.

Ian

 

Sorry. I mainly ment numbers of ships, and not quality.  The type 45's look very capable, but I don't see enough of them going into service. Same goes for the new SSN's that are in production. 

I really don't see India wanting a VSTOL capable carrier.  With the recent devolpments in Chinese naval avation, I think that they want a smaller, "true" carrier to counter the Chinese. The Italians have their own carrier project and don't have the budget to afford another one.  Same goes for Thailand. 

How many escorts do you think we'd need? There's six type 45's which, assuming one up, one down for maintenance and one being fitted out, gives us two for active service - and they're going to be the main focus for CVF duty.

Escorts aren't the problem - the questions all revolve around how much of an air wing we get, and what kind of AWACS - if we end up with the projected buy of 40, and SeaKing, then we'd have a very empty carrier and some not great early warning. We've certainly got more AWD's for escort duties than say, the French, who've tagged that particular requirement in their wish list for our grand alliance - and I'm sure we'll be asking them for some favours using their MPA capability, which we just chopped into bits of stamped aluminium. 

SSN wise, the US usually task one SSN per carrier group - and we can certainly do that for some years to come. Once all the other boats have gone to the breakers and we're down to 7 Astutes plus the three or four Successor boats, we'll have some interesting complications but in the main, if CVF sails, protecting it will be right at the top of the list of priorities - we'll suffer in other respects I'm sure but we'll generate enough to defend CVF from anything other than a WWIII scenario.

Ian