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Subject: CVF, what is happening exactly with them?, does anyone conclusively know?
JTR~~    1/14/2011 3:52:39 PM
At the moment i am at a loss at to knowing what is meant to be happening with the new CVF carriers for the Royal Navy. i know that the project has been given the green light to continue, and that both ships are to be built, but from here on in I’m lost. different places state different things, some sources say that one carrier will be in service while the other is reserved, some say that the second carrier will be used while the first is being refitted etc etc, others say that the second carrier will be immediately decommissioned, and some say that the second carrier might even be sold or immediately scrapped. Can anyone actually tell me conclusively what is meant to be happening?. Also with the budget was there any capability reductions specified?, i know that air compliment has been reduced, does anyone have any exact details on this aspect as well? Any information would be greatly appreciated; I am really hoping for the answer that Britain will be keeping both at hand. Also would you think that by only operating one carrier the Royal Navy will see a great loss in capability, or will even the one carrier be significant progress over the two smaller invincible class carriers?
 
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JFKY    I might further add   1/23/2011 6:10:45 PM
that even were the US to contemplate a CATOBAR CVF, why?  It's too small...So IF it's LPH we don't need one more, don't see the need to repay for engineering and action systems, combat information systems, twice, once British and once US.
 
IF it's CATOBAR it's too small...
 
Your ego limits your ability to comment Herald.
 
CVF is for the British ...or India, or the PRC, not the US.
 
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heraldabc       1/23/2011 8:37:50 PM

the QE is NOT going to be CATOBAR, according to Phaid...it is PoW that is to be CATOBAR.  QE is going to be a Helo Carrier.

Shrug. Grab her and rename her the Bon Homme Richard and raze her to the flight dec kand rebuild. We need an experimental flight deck for an UAS carrier and an FEL platform anyway.
 
Either one will do. The QE would actually be cheaper to fix as long as we get it blank at the flight deck.   
 
 
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heraldabc       1/23/2011 8:53:55 PM
US
IF it's CATOBAR it's too small...

 
Your ego limits your ability to comment Herald.
 

CVF is for the British ...or India, or the PRC, not the US.


See comment immediately above.
 
Its the lack of imagination in others that always bothers me when people try to accuse me of of ego trips. Haven't I shown you by now, that I actually take a problem and think it through? 
 
You don't have to strip a hull to the bare steel to make it work. Sometimes you just use common COTs to fit standard marine practice.
 
There is a likely brand new billion dollar hull sitting waiting to be scrapped or snapped up and put to work. The British effed the exercise up, so why not take it and do it right? 
 
The reason I want that LHA (Catobar) is that as a base ship I like the QE type as an LHA and as a carrier we can use for the usual peacetime carrier rescue mission (show the flag in Japan and third world ) respond to Pacific disasters, land Marines in Haiti, etc..
 
Call it a carrier with the smiley face. 
 
Save the Fords for WAR.
 
H.
 
 
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VelocityVector    Given the newsflash...   1/23/2011 9:04:11 PM

Corners may be cut with QE class, I would argue it would be inevitable, reducing them to or even below commercial standards build and not up to US military standards.  You cannot retrofit military.  Is the US prepared to operate capital ships built to comm stds?  Personally I doubt that's a good idea.  A QE acquistion by the US may very well literally be that hole in the water into which you continue to dump money.  Let a developing military have them.  If.  0.02

v^2

 
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heraldabc       1/23/2011 9:20:03 PM

Corners may be cut with QE class, I would argue it would be inevitable, reducing them to or even below commercial standards build and not up to US military standards.  You cannot retrofit military.  Is the US prepared to operate capital ships built to comm stds?  Personally I doubt that's a good idea.  A QE acquistion by the US may very well literally be that hole in the water into which you continue to dump money.  Let a developing military have them.  If.  0.02

v^2

You do realize that a carrier is of necessity a high stress hull? Even a helo carrier takes more of a beating than an ocean liner or a frigate from flight operations.

The waste of building a floating jobs programs is a criminal act.
 
H.
  
 
 
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JFKY       1/23/2011 9:26:09 PM

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heraldabc       1/25/2011 12:08:00 AM














Shrug. Grab her and rename her the Bon Homme Richard and raze her to the flight dec kand rebuild.
 
So so far, you are RE-ENGINING AND RAZING   and this going to be cheap how?

I am not going to re-engine, now that I checked to see that the RR gas turbines are in the US inventory.  

We need an experimental flight deck for an UAS carrier and an FEL platform anyway.
 
Well mayhap we do and mayhap we don't...an FEL platform might as well be the USN's current USS Norton Sound.  The UAS' and Emals handled by shore testing and the use of the current force.  Certainly EMALS will be.

The Norton Sound cannot fight.

Either one will do. The QE would actually be cheaper to fix as long as we get it blank at the flight deck.   

 We aren't going to get it blank, dood....the Brit's aren't going to admit they've screwed the pooch!  They aren't going to invest time treasure and talent and then say "Ooopsie our bad, we'll just complete this hull to US specifications."

A helo carrier is a blank.
 


Save the Fords for WAR.

In an era of budget cuts the USN cannot afford a "capital vessel" it can't take to war.  Sorry if you're a CVL/LPH you have be able to go to war.

The British intend this vessel for war. It is suitable as an LHA for all operations short of total war. 

Again, your ego is talking, not your higher faculties.  SURE, it's TECHNICALLY possible, but it's neither economically nor politically feasible.
 
You have not thought it through. I think I have
 
================================
 
H.

 
 
 
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StobieWan       1/25/2011 8:30:51 AM
I can't work out where that conclusion is driven from - there's nothing in the SDR to suggest anything of the sort - we're buying F35C's and flying fixed wing jets for sure.

Ian

 
h*tp://navy-matters.beedall.com/

 

Unlikely UK will ever field manned aircraft of off carriers again.


 
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StobieWan       1/25/2011 8:37:25 AM
On selling a CVF off, I can't imagine finding a buyer who'd want it and who could afford it. Maybe licensing the design to Brazil, with local assembly but buying a brand new, still with the wrappers on it..Nah...

There's some nice stuff the US will be interested in - I think the automated munitions handling track is novel, but the rest? Can't see it. 


Besides, if you look at the timings, the current government has deliberately pushed all the big decisions to outside it's current lifetime. We'll have a different government and hopefully a better economy by the time this all pops up for real as a set of decisions.


Ian

 
 
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ruethan    Consult astrologer   1/25/2011 7:02:54 PM
No one knows, including the government that scrapped all its carrier capability for a nebulous future in 10 years.  This government and previous ones spent about 7 billion US dollars on the Nimrod MR4, then scrapped the entire force. Thgey could do the same thing to the CVF. Perhaps they can find some Fairey Swordfish for carrier operations. Personally, I think the UK will end up with one carrier with an undersized fighter wing of Super Hornets. 
The government savaged the defense budget to help pay for the Nanny State. It will suffer later. 

 
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