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Subject: Forbin - Horizon
nominoe    3/19/2008 11:37:21 AM
here is a very interesting article about the new french frigate, unfortunately it's in french : http://www.meretmarine.com/article.cfm?id=107154 Currently, the new frigate is tested at sea. it's radar is following planes of Roissy airport from Lorient harbour (450 km). You will find some details about weapons, sensors, etc..
 
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Yimmy       3/25/2008 1:46:01 AM
Herald, seriously, just look it up for your own benefit.  Log onto any number of sites, fas org, whatever.
 
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Herald12345    Yimmy I'm not kidding about this.   3/25/2008 1:51:55 AM
They didn't use cruiser as we do.

They descibed their ships at the time as either large or small, as ship or boat , as rocket firing sghip or submarine figthting ship.

It was the United States that called their ships "cruisers and produced the mythical cruiser gap.

There hasn't been a real cruiser as the word was originally meant since the introduction of the first dedicated British ASW and American AAW ships.

I'm not being stubborn about this; just precise.

Herald

 
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eldnah       3/25/2008 6:07:09 PM
The problem as I understand arises from a number of facts. The Russians and NATO used different terms to describe their ships. The Russian CVs were called cruisers to get around the Montreaux Convention restricting their passing through the Dardanelles. During the 1960s,70s & 80's the new Russian ships were approaching the displacement of WWII cruisers. In addition to their deck guns, torpedoes, AA missiles, ASW rockets they were seen to have a battery of surface to surface missiles that were believed capable of sinking a larger ship with one or two hits. Consequently the modified Kashins, Kresta Is and Kydnas were thought to have a sufficient punch to earn the label cruiser. The following group of Kresta IIs and Karas we mis rated cruisers because their new missiles SS-N-1s were thought to be surface-to-surface missiles were later found to be ASW weapons.
The 12,000 ton Slavas are clearly cruisers with 2 130mm 70cal DP guns, 16  SS-N-12s, 6 30mm gatlings, 64 SA-N-6s, 40 SA-N-4s, 10 533mm TTs, 2 RBU-6000 RLs and a helicopter. The 28,000 ton Kirovs are probably more battle cruisers than cruisers 
 
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earlm    Ship Designation   3/25/2008 9:35:47 PM
Ship designations made sense until technology intervened.  Before torpedoes there were line of battle ships and scouts/cruiser warfare vessels.  After torpedoes the destroyer was added and this vessel proved effective for ASW and AAW when those technologies arrived.  A weak destroyer was called a destroyer escort, sloop, or frigate.  Actually, all the ships started to evolve towards the escort.  Escorts can be first rate or second rate, AAW oriented, ASW oriented, or multimission.  After WW2 but before AShM there was a still a role for cruisers as ASuW escorts.  The key thing is, they were not the center of a battle group but were escorts that could handle enemy surface vessels.  A new system of designation would be a combination of the following:
First rate or second rate
ASW, AAW, both, or general purpose with no specialization (neither)

Daring would be a first rate AAW.
Lafayette would be a second rate neither.
Spruance would be a first rate ASW.

 
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eldnah       3/25/2008 9:38:34 PM

The problem as I understand arises from a number of facts. The Russians and NATO used different terms to describe their ships. The Russian CVs were called cruisers to get around the Montreaux Convention restricting their passing through the Dardanelles. During the 1960s,70s & 80's the new Russian ships were approaching the displacement of WWII cruisers. In addition to their deck guns, torpedoes, AA missiles, ASW rockets they were seen to have a battery of surface to surface missiles that were believed capable of sinking a larger ship with one or two hits. Consequently the modified Kashins, Kresta Is and Kydnas were thought to have a sufficient punch to earn the label cruiser. The following group of Kresta IIs and Karas we mis rated cruisers because their new missiles SS-N-1s were thought to be surface-to-surface missiles were later found to be ASW weapons.

The 12,000 ton Slavas are clearly cruisers with 2 130mm 70cal DP guns, 16  SS-N-12s, 6 30mm gatlings, 64 SA-N-6s, 40 SA-N-4s, 10 533mm TTs, 2 RBU-6000 RLs and a helicopter. The 28,000 ton Kirovs are probably more battle cruisers than cruisers 

Whoops meant ......their new missiles SS-N-14s (not SS-N-1s) were thought to be surface-to-surface...

 
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