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Subject: rim 116
stinger    2/6/2008 1:02:34 AM
Are they going to add the RIM 116 to the destroyers and cruisers, I noticed they took the phalanx 20mm off the new ddg,s that are being built.at least the 20mm was able to lock on to small craft. can the ram-21 do that?
 
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benellim4       2/6/2008 5:09:59 PM
It would be improper to discuss exactly what the Navy's plan is to arm their ships. There are some generalities that can be discussed.

The Mk15 Block 1B is not going away. It may be expanded. Who gets it and when is a matter being discussed.

There is a version of RAM, i.e. RIM 116, that is placed on a Mk15 mount and can perform surface engagements.

DDGs can carry ESSM, which can attack surface targets as well.

The exact mix of what a ship gets, depends.

A little reading for you.
ht*p://www.raytheon.com/media/pac08/pdf/evolved_sea_sparrow_missile_fact.pdf
h*tp://www.dtic.mil/ndia/ammo/martin.pdf
 
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stinger       2/6/2008 10:12:29 PM
take a look at the new ddgs especially the flight IIa they no longer carry the MK-15 phalanx and are replacing it with the nulka system. its sad but true. hopefully they could add the RIM 116 to at least make up for the loss.. this is unclassified info..even the new san antonio class got ride of them and have RIM-116..
 
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Phaid       2/7/2008 11:14:11 AM
take a look at the new ddgs especially the flight IIa they no longer carry the MK-15 phalanx and are replacing it with the nulka system. its sad but true. hopefully they could add the RIM 116 to at least make up for the loss.. this is unclassified info..even the new san antonio class got ride of them and have RIM-116..

Um, no.

The Flight IIa have an additional 6 VLS tubes, and are armed with RIM-162 ESSMs instead (4 missiles per tube) instead of Phalanx or RAM.  ESSM, as bellinim4 said, can be used against surface vessels and small craft.

Nulka is a antimissile decoy system, it is not a replacement for Phalanx.
 
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benellim4       2/7/2008 4:19:27 PM

take a look at the new ddgs especially the flight IIa they no longer carry the MK-15 phalanx and are replacing it with the nulka system. its sad but true. hopefully they could add the RIM 116 to at least make up for the loss.. this is unclassified info..even the new san antonio class got ride of them and have RIM-116..


Negative ghostrider. The new DDGs have ESSM RIM-162. (Some of us in the trade call it Extremely Small Standard Missile, but it is actually the Evolved SeaSparrow Missile.) It is a VERY good missile and has an anti-surface capability.

Nulka is a separate program of record. 
 
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stinger       2/7/2008 8:24:39 PM
please explain to me why some destroyers have the phalanx and some do not? or are they waiting for the new ciws to come on line  thank you
 
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benellim4       2/7/2008 8:43:04 PM

please explain to me why some destroyers have the phalanx and some do not? or are they waiting for the new ciws to come on line  thank you


CIWS was seen as superfluous with the capabilities of ESSM. If ESSM wasn't ready at the time of the ship's construction then CIWS was installed. ESSM is relatively new, so that's why you see only Flight IIAs with no CIWS mounts.
 
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stinger       2/7/2008 8:54:32 PM
thanks for clarifying that i appreciate the info. Does the ESSM and the rim-116 have the same mission or can they be deployed together?
 
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benellim4       2/7/2008 9:07:48 PM

thanks for clarifying that i appreciate the info. Does the ESSM and the rim-116 have the same mission or can they be deployed together?


Yes and yes. Think layered defense. You don't want to rely on a single system to protect you. So when a ship has SM, the SM is "backed up" by a short range defensive weapon, such as CIWS or ESSM. Carriers and large deck amphibs have ESSM and RAM/CIWS to complement each other. About the only exception to this rule is LPDs. The LPD-17 was supposed to have an ESSM capability, but cost and ESSM delays got in the way (at least that is my recollection). There is space for ESSM though. (ht tp://www.naval-technology.com/projects/lpd17/) The old LPDs are being retired and it just isn't worth the investment to outfit them with RAM/ESSM.
 
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stinger       2/7/2008 9:19:26 PM
OK so the arleigh Burke's that are being built now and commissioned without the ciws are being replaced by the ESSM, is that correct? and is there room to maybe add the RIM-116 to where the ciws used to be mounted, or are they going to upgrade to block 1 B and put them back. thanks again.
 
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benellim4       2/7/2008 9:31:01 PM

OK so the arleigh Burke's that are being built now and commissioned without the ciws are being replaced by the ESSM, is that correct? and is there room to maybe add the RIM-116 to where the ciws used to be mounted, or are they going to upgrade to block 1 B and put them back. thanks again.


You got it. 

As for 1B vs RAM, theoretically you could do one or the other or even both (say a CIWS forward and a RAM aft). It all depends on how adequate the USN believes the existing defenses are in light of the current threat. 
 
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