Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Surface Forces Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: The French Navy 's running like a Swiss clock
Bluewings12    11/19/2007 1:11:38 PM
Rough translation from the French Marine Nationale site : "According to the french Attached shipyard in London and Washington, the average number of days at sea of its units is even much higher than the U.S. Navy and the Royal Navy. Thus, in 2006, each french submarine sailed, on average, 137 days a year, compared with 94 days for British submersibles and 75 for the US units. Only aircraft carrier in service, the Charles de Gaulle operated, in turn, 140 days in the past year, compared to 56 days on average for each British carrier and 84 for the 12 U.S. aircraft carrier. The frigates of the Navy ahead also their colleagues abroad, with 108 days at sea, compared with 101 days for the Royal Navy and 73 for the US Navy. The difference comes with the largest fleet of amphibious tricolor, including the four units were highly sought in 2006: 168 days at sea on average for each vessel, as against 76 for Britain and 67 for the Americans. The security forces have mine warfare, it achieved an average of 77 days at sea, compared with respectively 62 and 41 days. Only in the area of support vessels that the Royal Navy is better, with 111 days at sea, compared with 102 days of the French and 30 days of the Americans." The French Navy said that far to wear off the Ships , the high number of days spent at sea provide a highly qualified personal . On another topic , the SSBN "Le Temeraire" will be back at sea in january 2008 with its 16 M45s nuclear ballistic missiles (France has always 2 SSBNs on patrol at any time). The Le Temeraire "technical stop" lasted only 21 months (31 before for the 1st Triomphant) and did cost 20% less than the first refit . In 2010 , 3 SSBNs will be loaded with the new M51 nuclear ballistic missile while the submarines will have a brand new electronic system as well as an updated combat system . The MN site also stated that an agreement has been reached and made with the UK regarding the futur aircraft carriers . It is going to be a coordinated effort to develop , build , buy and share many common systems for the carriers . That will reduce cost and emphase the inter-operability between the 2 navies . France is launching the second carrier project this winter (hopefully) and the carrier will be part of the 2008 budget . The new 7050 tons Frigate "Chevalier Paul" (Horizon Class) is now completing her sea trials and will be operational in June next year . The ship 's weaponry include 32 ASTER-30 missiles , 16 ASTER-15 missiles , 8 MM40 Exocet missiles , 2 76mm cannons , 2 20mm cannons and 2 torpido tubes for the MU90 torpido . A NH90 combat chopper will be carried onboard . Her sistership will be operational a year later (2010) . All in all , everythings looks good for the French Navy . Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Pages: 1 2
Bluewings12    No hull sharing with the Brits   11/19/2007 4:59:03 PM
Still from the MN site :
(rough translation)

"Under the second draft aircraft carrier (PA2) for the Navy, eventually there will be no cooperation with Britain on the construction of the hull. This was reported Wednesday evening in the National Assembly by Hervé Morin, during discussions on the budget for 2008 of Defense. A time mentioned, sharing the achievement of blocks between the French and British industry is abandoned. Britain, which launched its program this summer to build two aircraft carriers, carry only the HMS Queen Elizabeth and Prince of Wales. The British government will use this command to restructure its major shipyards. France, which has still not notified the contract for completion of his ship to DCNS, must be constructed to build the hull and propelled at Aker Yards, in Saint-Nazaire. The armament of the aircraft carrier will be provided in Brest. Tricolor side, it is not necessarily the abandonment of cooperation on the hull as bad news. Indeed, the French had made many concessions in terms of their building, directly derived from CVF of the Royal Navy."

To me , it is bad news . Our carrier will fit better our needs but it will also be more expensive .
This is obviously a good decision for Britain and its shipbuilding industry .
Nevertheles :

"Apart from achieving the hulls, cooperation remains intact. After leading throughout the past two years, the design studies, the two countries are working on the joint acquisition of major equipment. These include propulsion, radar, weapons and even combat system, which will enable us to make significant savings on one of the biggest jobs of the program.
Long of 283 meters for a shift from 70 to 75,000 tonnes in charge, PA2 can embark 32 fighter aircraft Rafale, 3 aircraft air sentry Hawkeye, and 5 helicopters heavy NH90. After drawing up plans for construction in 2008, a phase that will follow the order expected in the coming weeks, the cutting of the first sheet should intervene in the first half of 2009. Aker Yards plans to deliver the ship to DCNS in February 2012. He joined then Brest for its completion before activation scheduled for 2014/2015."
(As I said before)

More news :
"Dimention side , the PA2 will measure 283 meters long for a displacement of 70,000 to 75,000 tonnes in charge (approximately 30,000 tonnes more than the Charles de Gaulle). Its fleet will comprise 32 fighter aircraft Rafale, 3 aircraft air sentry Hawkeye and 5 helicopters heavy NH90. The placing on hold could be accomplished in 2010 for delivery in 2014, during the second great refit of Charles de Gaulle. French Ministry of Defense hopes that its cost does not exceed 2.5 billion euros."

Our second carrier will hold more Rafales (about 24 for CdG) and one more Sentry Hawkeye as well as more combat choppers .

Cheers .




 
Quote    Reply

Herald1234    Recheck those numbers.    11/19/2007 5:22:29 PM
That's all.
 
Herald
 
Quote    Reply

RockyMTNClimber    140 days .....impressive.   11/19/2007 5:37:53 PM
As a result of the tensions in the area, Ike stayed on station off the coast of Iran for over 8 months, and was at sea for a total of 254 days. During that period, Sailors and Marines enjoyed 2 beers (1 time) after 45 days without a port call. The term applied to this is called "splicing the main brace." As a result of being at sea for 154 days, they subsequently enjoyed this on two more occasions. This was the first legal consumption of alcohol by US Sailors while underway aboard a US Navy vessel in decades.ht***tp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Dwight_D._Eisenhower_(CVN-69)
 
Give us a call after 254 days in combat conditions though..... or 286.....
 
Flying her "Homeward Bound" pennant and displaying a banner reading "Mission Accomplished," USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN-72) steams into San Diego Harbor for a stop prior to returning to her homeport of Everett, Wash., following a nearly 10-month deployment in support of Operations Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom. Abraham Lincoln would disembark Carrier Air Wing Fourteen (CVW-14) personnel in San Diego and was scheduled to reach homeport on May 6, marking 286 days.....
ht***tp://www.navsource.org/archives/02/72a.htm
 
Check Six
 
Rocky
 
Quote    Reply

EW3       11/19/2007 10:05:55 PM
Swiss Clock?
 
A cuckoo clock?
 
Quote    Reply

Phaid       11/20/2007 5:10:55 AM
It isn't really remarkable that high-demand, low density assets, which is what the entire French navy consists of, would be at sea a lot.  (Although it is remarkable, and laughable, that they would claim this is "far from wearing out" these overused ships).

Meanwhile, Sarkozy is bankrupting the future of the MN by insisting on this boondoggle of a second carrier, which will force them to drop their frigate fleet by more than half the original planned numbers.

Clock indeed.  One that is ticking like a timebomb.

 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings12       11/20/2007 11:58:32 AM
Herald :
""Recheck those numbers""
Ok , but which numbers ? At least , give me a clue ...

So the USS A. Lincoln spent 286 days at sea and the Ike 254 days ? That is remarquable , congratulation to the crew !
They deserve more than 2 beers if you ask me :-)

Phaid :
""Meanwhile, Sarkozy is bankrupting the future of the MN by insisting on this boondoggle of a second carrier, which will force them to drop their frigate fleet by more than half the original planned numbers.""
I don 't think that the total numbers of planned Frigates will be down by half , that is a misinterpretation . The best is to wait for the "White Book" who should be released soon by the French Gov . Then , we 'll know the exact numbers .
As a matter of fact , the 3 billions Euros needed for PA2 will probably come from a "special" budget and not from the MN money .
We do need a second Carrier and Sarkozy wants it . He is certainly not "bankrupting" (?) the futur of the MN , at the contrary . The MN will get the best part of the total military budget alongside the AdA and its Rafales .
There is no "timebomb" , absolutly none .

Is it me or I can feel a bit of bitterness in your tone ?
I wasn 't trying to make a point , just providing some news , that 's all .

Cheers .


 
Quote    Reply

Herald1234    I mean recheck your numbers.   11/20/2007 12:10:10 PM
Ist das klar?
 
For example the claim about US carriers days at sea is way off.
 
Herald
 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings12       11/20/2007 1:49:16 PM
Herald :
""For example the claim about US carriers days at sea is way off.""

The MN site speaks about average days at sea for each of the USN Carriers (84 days) . That is not off .

Cheers .

 
Quote    Reply

Phaid       11/20/2007 3:19:53 PM
We do need a second Carrier and Sarkozy wants it .

Where is the need?  The carrier has been in commission for over six years, and apart from a couple of showboating expeditions to the Indian Ocean to send three Rafales to Afghanistan -- which could have been done more effectively from Dushanbe or Bagram -- the carrier has done absolutely nothing but cost money.  On the other hand, frigates are providing real-world use off the coast of Africa, off Lebanon, etc.  Where was the CdG when those were happening?

In all likelihood the entire purchase of FREMMs will be limited to 8 at most because of the PA2.  This will severely limit the fleet's ability to be in multiple places, and force them to deploy a carrier where a couple of frigates would suffice, or risk leaving any carrier that does deploy without sufficient escorts.  And in no case will there be enough escorts to support two simultaneous deployments of carriers.

What the MN should do is buy more BPCs -- real, useful, very cost effective, and likely to see heavy use -- and even more frigates than the 17 originally planned.
 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings12       11/20/2007 5:38:17 PM
Phaid :
""Where is the need?""
??? Ask yourself why the USA has more than one carrier , you stupid . I call you stupid with purpose and reason : you 're not discussing but bashing away without having any clue of what you talk about Phaid . I was expecting much better from you ...

""
The carrier has been in commission for over six years, and apart from a couple of showboating expeditions to the Indian Ocean to send three Rafales to Afghanistan""
??? Tell that to the NATO Troops on the ground and they will laught at you . To start with , the 3 Rafale F2s did very little over Afghanistan , most of the work has been done by the Super Etendards while the Rafale F1s were used for buddy refueling . Or you are misinformed , or ~as I said~ you 're just bashing away Phaid .

""
the carrier has done absolutely nothing but cost money.""
What the US carriers have been doing , so ? Helping the Bush admin to fight a wrong war in Irak and bomb civilians ?...
If you want to use your carriers in a usefull way , attack Iran , or Pakistan , or Saudi Arabia or just shut up .

""
On the other hand, frigates are providing real-world use off the coast of Africa, off Lebanon, etc.  Where was the CdG when those were happening?""
Do you think that the CdG would be usefull off the coast of Africa or near Lebanon ? What for ??? To sink a couple of 3000$ worth  pirate boats with Rafales or exocets when a 12.7mm heavy machine gun can do it ???

""
In all likelihood the entire purchase of FREMMs will be limited to 8 at most because of the PA2.  This will severely limit the fleet's ability to be in multiple places""
Do you think that the French Navy is only made of 8 Frigates ??? We have ships in the 7 Seas Phaid .

""
and force them to deploy a carrier where a couple of frigates would suffice""
We deploy "X" number of ships as the need arises , like everybody else . If a couple of Frigates are enough ~as you say~ why deploy a carrier ???

""
or risk leaving any carrier that does deploy without sufficient escorts""
In any high intensity conflict , our carrier ~whichever is~ will have the escort it deserves/needs with ease . We could send 2 full battlegroups (CdG + PA2) today as we have more than enough Frigates to assure a strong screen , both in the anti-airwarfare and ASW . We 're talking about the MN here , not about the Lichtenstein Navy .

""
And in no case will there be enough escorts to support two simultaneous deployments of carriers.""
Wrong . Check what we 've got again , you need to .

""
What the MN should do is buy more BPCs -- real, useful, very cost effective, and likely to see heavy use""
I agree 100% with you on this one .

Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply
1 2



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics