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Subject: French and British Navys in 2017
usajoe    8/20/2007 4:51:10 AM
Right now the british have a small edge as the top navy in europe, but 10 years from now the French second aircraft carrier to complement the nuclear Charles de Gaulle, Horizon Destroyers,Fremm multipurpose frigates,and the 1st Barracuda ssn will come into service along with the Rafales, and E-2C Hawkeyes. the British will have their 2 new Queen Elizabeth class carrieres,Type-45 Destroyers,Astute Class ssn, and the F-35 replacing the Harriers. So on paper bolth will have simmler capabilities, and size, the same as now but with more Global projection power,and the difference then as is now will be British naval tactics and training which i think is just a tad bit better, and that is what I think is going to keep them the number 1 navy in europe.
 
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5thGuards       8/30/2007 10:21:28 AM
And Herald , if you really know alot , then proove me wrong , go on , proove my 3 facts wrong and if you can I will shut up and never post in this topic again, thats a promise.
 
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5thGuards       8/30/2007 12:11:51 PM
Whats wrong can't you proove me wrong?

If you can't proove my 3 points wrong then explain at least 1 major fact


With the Navies of the world pitted against the US then how is the US  going to recieve fuel and raw materials when the rest of the world controls the ports exporting material? The US wouldnt even need to be blockaded since the goods just wouldn't be sent. Additionally all those bases around the wourld would be quickly over run without supplies or support and a freindly nation to base them in.

 
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usajoe    delusional guards   8/30/2007 12:11:56 PM
There is only 1 reason why you don't proove me wrong usajoe.

Because you CAN'T.

I prooven you wrong and now that you can't prove me wrong the only thing you can do is cry and ignore my post , you just prooven how much you really know , you just prooven that you got served.
You are wrong and you can't proove it back , deep inside you know thats the truth , and if its not then I dare you to do it , why not?
Even a teenager would see the writing on the wall , that you are just ignoring and hidding because you know crap.
Every post in the past has been quote'd by another person , you have never prooven anyone wrong , ever , you know nothing.

Now in the next post if you don't proove me wrong , then you will proove to everybody that you don't know anything.
I already said I don't care , but until you can't until then im right and you know it , kiddy.

3rd time im telling you , proove me wrong , you said you know stuff about defence , come on , proove it , maybe I was wrong about you , proove me wrong and act like a adult , not like a kid that runs away from problems ..

Im waiting usajoe.
 
 
 
 
 
 1. US carriers can sustaine full combat operations for just 5 days before they need to be reloaded with suplies. ( Thats a major weaknes since US has no way to protect its logistic over whole Pacific or Atlantic ocean). Just imagine harasment by Tu-22M3 or Tu-160/95 over logistic ships heading to resupply carriers. ( and without munitions they are mearly siting ducks).
 
 Do you know  what is a CBG  do you know the capabilitys of this ships  are
Arleigh Burke GMD largest and most powerful destroyers in the world with
the  Aegis combat system most capable defense systems in the world .
Ticonderoga class Cruisers with Tomahawk LACM and also Agies equiped
here is some inside on the Agies-
It is the most modern surface combat system and is the first fully integrated combat system
built to defend against air, surface, and subsurface threats. The Aegis Weapons System is
comprised of the SPY-1 Radar, MK 99 Fire Control System, MK 41 VLS, and SM-2
Standard Missile systems. the  AN/SPY-1  radar can simultaneously  track  over 100 targets
at more than 100 nautical miles.You know what is Awacs and what it can do here let me tell
you the new updated Hawkeye 2000s can track more than 2,000 targets simultaneously
while at the same time, detecting 20,000 simultaneously) to a range greater than
400 miles 650 km and simultaneously guide 40 - 100 air to air intercepts or
air to surface engagements. that means that we will know about the TU-22's  or 95's
before they even come anywhere close to the US fleet to do any damage we will
intercept them and shoot them down Oh and since we are talking about war and
not Navy vs Navy guess what dude Your Air Force is going to Face the most
scarry thing in the world short of Nukes The 6,000 Plus US air force with F-22's
F-15's -F-16's- B-2's-B-52-B-1's- with JDAMS, ALCM, AIM-120C AMRAAM's
and E-8C Jstars, E-3B/C Sentry AWAC's and KC-10 AND KC-135 Tankers, and
other goods from air bases Incirlik Air Base in Turkey, Manas Air Base Kyrgyzstan,
Ramstein And Spangdahlem Air Base in Germany, Aviano Air Base in Italy, Bagram Air Base
Afghanistan, Misawa Air Base Japan, Osan Air Base  S.Korea, and many more oh and
dont say you will Nuke all this bases because we can do the same no Nukes just conventonial.
Oh and please say that the Russian air force can beat the US air force. Btw the fleet will
also be protected by the  US SSN's the largest and most advanced in the world.
 
 
2. You say US can geather over 1000 Super Hornet fighters. thats one big LOL That fighter is a shame for US NAVY and stands no chance against any descent fighter. US navy will have 480 of it thrown out in 2012 and until then operates even older F/A-18 Hornet fighter. Now with service ceiling of 15 000m , g load of 7.6 and max dash speed of Mach 1.6 with the use of afterburner that fighter posses no real threat to any EU (Rafale/EF-2000) or Russian (Mig-29 Su-27xx) not to mention  Mig-31 and would lose galantly any aieral engagement.
 
That is not true about the Hornets there
 
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gf0012-aust       8/30/2007 2:13:04 PM
 
for crying out loud, can you two get over each other and move on?  Its killing the thread.
 
 
 
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Lawman       8/30/2007 2:41:54 PM
[Hoping gf is talking about 5th and usajoe, not me!]
 
I agree wholeheartedly, this is not the place for this kind of hostile, immature nonsense, from both of you. Just let it go, you wont agree, and now you're not even amusing to read, so get over yourselves.
 
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Herald1234       8/30/2007 2:49:38 PM

And Herald , if you really know alot , then proove me wrong , go on , proove my 3 facts wrong and if you can I will shut up and never post in this topic again, thats a promise.


1. The USN can reprovision at sea and sustain itself for months. Evidence?we do it every day of the year.
Loadout is not endurance. Fuel and bomb transfer is a weekly or DAILY evolution. Fact 1 discreditted, the fact claimed that a US carrier after five days is empty and helpless.
 
2. Super Hornets bombed outside Kandahar in 2006 in action against the Taliban. Range limitation assertion as an aircraft weakness discreditted. So much for fact two. Buddyfuelling and self-escort made a bombing mission more than 6 hours round trip from the carrier possible. The Wiki range you quoted is from Aerospace Web and it is WRONG.
 
3. Super Hornet and Hornet have a distinct BVR and A2A missile advantage over the Euroclucks and the Russoclucks. The airframes are burden 7.8g rated, but then if you looked cretin this is about within the norm for a Eurocluck and far better than the 5 g limit burden on the Flanker. A2A configured the Hornet is a 90mps side shove caopable bird. Third fact discreditted.
 
Now go away. I want to discuss something with Lawman. 
 
Herald
 
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Herald1234       8/30/2007 2:51:40 PM

And Herald , if you really know a lot , then prove me wrong , go on , prove my 3 facts wrong and if you can I will shut up and never post in this topic again, that's a promise.


1. The USN can re provision at sea and sustain itself for months. Evidence?we do it every day of the year.
Load out is not endurance. Fuel and bomb transfer is a weekly or DAILY evolution. Fact 1 discredited, the fact claimed that a US carrier after five days is empty and helpless.
 
2. Super Hornets bombed outside Kandahar in 2006 in action against the Taliban. Range limitation assertion as an aircraft weakness discredited. So much for fact two. Buddy fuelling and self-escort made a bombing mission more than 6 hours round trip from the carrier possible. The Wiki range you quoted is from Aerospace Web and it is WRONG.
 
3. Super Hornet and Hornet have a distinct BVR and A2A missile advantage over the Euro-clucks and the Russo-clucks. The airframes are burden 7.8g rated, but then if you looked cretin this is about within the norm for a Euro-cluck and far better than the 5 g limit burden on the Flanker. A2A configured the Hornet is a 90mps side shove capable bird. Third fact discredited.
 
Now go away. I want to discuss something with Lawman. 
 
Herald
 
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5thGuards       8/30/2007 5:57:19 PM
For once usajoe im happy that you posted a comprehensive analyse , I never saw that from you before , and I thought your just someone who agrees with others and doesn't know shit , btw I did not start insulting I only insulted back after you , now let me correct you by few things.




 Do you know  what is a CBG  do you know the capabilitys of this ships  are

Arleigh Burke GMD largest and most powerful destroyers in the world with

the  Aegis combat system most capable defense systems in the world .

Ticonderoga class Cruisers with Tomahawk LACM and also Agies equiped

here is some inside on the Agies-

It is the most modern surface combat system and is the first fully integrated combat system

built to defend against air, surface, and subsurface threats. The Aegis Weapons System is

comprised of the SPY-1 Radar, MK 99 Fire Control System, MK 41 VLS, and SM-2

Standard Missile systems. the  AN/SPY-1  radar can simultaneously  track  over 100 targets

at more than 100 nautical miles.You know what is Awacs and what it can do here let me tell

you the new updated Hawkeye 2000s can track more than 2,000 targets simultaneously

while at the same time, detecting 20,000 simultaneously) to a range greater than

400 miles 650 km and simultaneously guide 40 - 100 air to air intercepts or

air to surface engagements. that means that we will know about the TU-22's  or 95's

before they even come anywhere close to the US fleet to do any damage we will

intercept them and shoot them down Oh and since we are talking about war and

not Navy vs Navy guess what dude Your Air Force is going to Face the most

scarry thing in the world short of Nukes The 6,000 Plus US air force with F-22's

F-15's -F-16's- B-2's-B-52-B-1's- with JDAMS, ALCM, AIM-120C AMRAAM's

and E-8C Jstars, E-3B/C Sentry AWAC's and KC-10 AND KC-135 Tankers, and

other goods from air bases Incirlik Air Base in Turkey, Manas Air Base Kyrgyzstan,

Ramstein And Spangdahlem Air Base in Germany, Aviano Air Base in Italy, Bagram Air Base

Afghanistan, Misawa Air Base Japan, Osan Air Base  S.Korea, and many more oh and

dont say you will Nuke all this bases because we can do the same no Nukes just conventonial.

Oh and please say that the Russian air force can beat the US air force. Btw the fleet will

also be protected by the  US SSN's the largest and most advanced in the world.

 

Lets look more closely what have you just said:

1. It is true that US has some excellent destroyers and cruisers with AEGIS systems.

2. It is also true that Tomahawk LACM with 880 km/h speed is one big snail and can not avoide detection or destruction by modern SAMs.

3. It is true that SPY-1 Radar can simultaneously track over 100 targets at more than 100 nautical miles BUT it can at the same moent guide only 3 missiles at the time ( as Arleigh Burke has only three iluminators) and because of probability of each missile to hit other is less than 100% you will want to guide 2-3 missiles (ESSM / SM-2 ) on one Russian antiship missile. After hit ( or failed hit) iluminators take over another 3 Burks missiles and guide them to another threat ... so you see the problem here .... as swarms of Russian supersonic MACH 3 rush towards USN ships.

4. It is true that AEGIS system can guide SM-2 100 nautical miles, BUT radars on Burke is mounted on 28.5m height and that radar will spot 3M-54E flying 4m above sea level at 27km distance. Now as that missile rushes at 3000 km/h speed that will give Burk just about 20 sec to prepare its defences and start lounching ESSM or SM-2.... now thats a HUUUUGE problem ...

This threat can be countered by E-2/3 in the air as he can detect missiles long before SPY-2 radar and can guide Burks missiles on threat too.... BUT what if E-2 can not lift in the air because of R-37M and MIG-31M2 flying at safe distance and just waiting for such ro
 
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Herald1234    Poseur 1 reply.   8/30/2007 6:03:00 PM
 
The US Army has an interesting institution. the AWC. They study everybody.
 
Basically you landed 700 men from a forward deployed airhead and managed to shoot up a Belgian relief force[forgot them and Zairean army?] before the on the ground commanders got on the radio and talked to each other. The guerillas after getting up off the ground from laughing did as guerillas normally do and retreated rather than allow themselves to be engaged. They made their political point. Sticking around is not the guerillas' way.

Not to take anything away from the 2nd REP, but that is not a textbook example of how to conduct a successful operation.

Your forces didn't even have enough parachutes or organic air transport to drop on their objectives. 

Rest of your evidence that good, Poseur1?  
 
 
ROTFLMAO.
 
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RockyMTNClimber    Lawman and Herald are showing everyone how to have a disagreement and still be a gentlemen about it.    8/31/2007 12:19:43 AM

[Hoping gf is talking about 5th and usajoe, not me!]

 

I agree wholeheartedly, this is not the place for this kind of hostile, immature nonsense, from both of you. Just let it go, you wont agree, and now you're not even amusing to read, so get over yourselves.



 
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