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Subject: Could the The LCs design be used for a new Major surface combatant?
jessmo_24    2/15/2007 3:23:30 PM
h*tp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Freedom_%28LCS-1%29 Think about it Just make a LCs type design at nearly twice the length. -You can make some container crate modules in to missle firing canisters -give it dedicated VLS launchers -Make some vls modules carry DEW weapons, for offense or defense h*tp://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/thel.html
 
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Herald1234    MACH 8-10+ warheads plunging.    2/15/2007 9:41:50 PM

why are lasers evn necessary, I would think stuff like the us phalanx ciws and cousins would be capable enough, and they dont need as much power anyway. I would think 45oo depleted uranium shells per minute would be more than enough to take out a laser beam, why bother with ultra-complex unreliable lasers. we aren't into star wars yet.


We were into Starwars territory, the minute the Russians put up Sputnik.

Speed of light weapon velocity is the only point and shoot option you have in the last three minutes of warhead descent.

Thats physics.


Herald
 
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scuttlebut steve    what about LCS   2/15/2007 10:01:54 PM
1) i dont know how this thread got twisted into a laser vs CIWS debate but it is a fact that the USN has been designing solid state laser weapons for use on electric drive ships in the future
2) the LCS concept will be applied to larger ships if the LCS ships we are building are successfull (prove through user experience how flexible they can be and how much room for growth they have) and i think they will. a big issue will be how much the LCS design can reduce ship building and lifetime upgrade cost for the same level of capability vs the current Aegis destroyers.  it would be great if we could increase the number of high powered surface combatants for the same amount of cash or free up some money for other navy projects ( like increasing the size of the sub force).
 
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jessmo_24       2/16/2007 1:20:15 AM

why are lasers evn necessary, I would think stuff like the us phalanx ciws and cousins would be capable enough, and they dont need as much power anyway. I would think 45oo depleted uranium shells per minute would be more than enough to take out a laser beam, why bother with ultra-complex unreliable lasers. we aren't into star wars yet.


If iM NOT MISTAKEN THE PHANLANX, can only engage 1 target at a time. since a laser moves at the speed of light
it should be able to engage more targets quicker.
 
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KlubMarcus       2/16/2007 3:52:34 AM
The problem with CIWS is that it runs out of ammo before the attackers run out missiles. :( Even tiny missile patrol boats nowadays pack 4 anti-ship missiles apiece. Chances are that the Phalanx on a smaller vessel (like USN Frigates) will not be able to shoot them all down.
 
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Shirrush       2/16/2007 10:06:21 AM

EXPLAIN ISRAEL'S GEOGRAPHY.

The footprint of an ABM ship in the Mediterranean can overreach across Israel to provide terminal descent phase defense against Iranian, Syrian, Pakistani, and Egyptian TBM/IRBM threats. For the Saudis, the  need is for a ship in the Red Sea.

That is a LOT of electricity for the radar and the MASER and a big ship for either an advanced Red Arrow/Green Pine sea based setup or the AEGIS/SM 3.

You can't do that cheaply or small. The MEKO 7500  is also known as the MEKO  X. Blohm & Voss is the source build.

Get the Germans to build two for Israel in an ABM ship configuration as suggested. The EU is going to need ABM defense from Iran even more than Israel[CF  the Iran/Iraq War for why.] so the Germans have plenty of incentive.

Herald
Thank you for pointing out the importance of power generation capacity in the context of naval AD platforms.
Indeed, a large-array AESA antenna that needs to be water-cooled needs a lot of electricity, even if no DEWs are fitted or planned for.
However, recent, and significant advances in the technology of supercapacitors... could quickly be translated into smaller platforms packing the high-demand electromagnetics as well as the DEW's that today require large ships with big engines. Maybe.
 
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Herald1234    Physics.   2/16/2007 2:37:18 PM



EXPLAIN ISRAEL'S GEOGRAPHY.

The footprint of an ABM ship in the Mediterranean can overreach across Israel to provide terminal descent phase defense against Iranian, Syrian, Pakistani, and Egyptian TBM/IRBM threats. For the Saudis, the  need is for a ship in the Red Sea.

That is a LOT of electricity for the radar and the MASER and a big ship for either an advanced Red Arrow/Green Pine sea based setup or the AEGIS/SM 3.

You can't do that cheaply or small. The MEKO 7500  is also known as the MEKO  X. Blohm & Voss is the source build.

Get the Germans to build two for Israel in an ABM ship configuration as suggested. The EU is going to need ABM defense from Iran even more than Israel[CF  the Iran/Iraq War for why.] so the Germans have plenty of incentive.

Herald

Thank you for pointing out the importance of power generation capacity in the context of naval AD platforms.
Indeed, a large-array AESA antenna that needs to be water-cooled needs a lot of electricity, even if no DEWs are fitted or planned for.
However, recent, and significant advances in the technology of supercapacitors... could quickly be translated into smaller platforms packing the high-demand electromagnetics as well as the DEW's that today require large ships with big engines. Maybe.

Energy density[Mjoules output per decimeter capacitance volume^2 discharge]  still means means HEAT. You need a refrigeration cycle or a heatdump when you discharge your super capacitor[s].into a working circuit-especially those that rely almost exclusively on superconductive properties to form a storage ring. That means an insulator as well. It, the final capacitance rig with its heat sinks, refrigerators, and heat recovery loop, will not be small. Plus, being a first generation system, the entire DEW AESA radar setup will need plug and pull modularity for all of  the components. which will of necessity be unit separated in a cell scheme.  That means work access  for  installation maintenance.  That means a big ship.

Its also why using a barge as a towed VLS missile battery behind the ship is an engineering  waste of time. The missile VLS can just as easily be packed into the  forward hullspace which otherwise go to waste.

Herald

 
 
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Ezekiel    the meko is it   8/1/2009 5:33:58 PM
It looks like it will be suped up meko a-100.
 
Its actually a good start....practical and the beginning of the Israeli naval shipbuilding industry.
 
 
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