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Subject: Pakistani Air Force has won every encounter against the Indian Air Force
HeavyMetal    3/13/2005 3:42:30 AM
Indian resources have naturally refuted and denied PAF air superiority over the FIVE times larger IAF in the 65 and 71 wars. Indian and Pakistani claims and counter claims are pointless on this subject as they tend to be biased and blurred with nationalism. The only way to assess this is through the neutral and qualified international opinion, which has now become aviation history. Check out autobiography of Gen. Chuck Yeagers (yes, the one who broke the sound barrier), who 'refereed' the 1971 war and flew up and down the region collecting wreckage of IAF aircraft shot down by the PAF. Here is what he says, "the Pakistanis scored a three-to-one kill ratio knocking out 102 Indian jets and losing 34 of their own. I am certain about the figures because I went out several times a day in a chopper and counted the wrecks below. I counted wrecks, documented them by serial numbers, identified the components such as engines and rocket pods" Now he is not exactly a Pakistani, is he? Check out the following world reputed aviation journals. USA - Aviation week & space technology - December 1968 issue. "For the PAF, the 1965 war was as climatic as the Israeli victory over the Arabs in 1967. A further similarity was that Indian air power had an approximately 5:1 numerical superiority at the start of the conflict. Unlike the Middle East conflict, the Pakistani air victory was achieved to a large degree by air-to-air combat rather than on ground. But it was as absolute as that attained by Israel. UK - Air International - November - 1991 " the average PAF pilot is almost certainly possessed of superior skills when compared with, say, an average American pilot. As to those who are rated above average, they compare favourably to the very best " Encyclopaedia of Aircraft printed in several countries by Orbis publications - Volume 5 "Pakistan's air force gained a remarkable victory over India in this brief 22 day war exploiting its opponents weaknesses in exemplary style - Deeply shaken by reverse, India began an extensive modernisation and training program, meanwhile covering its defeat with effective propaganda smoke screen. If you feel more at ease with German and French, then also checkout the followings Air Action (France) December 1988 and January 1989 Flugzeug (Germany) February (2) 1989 In addition to this, PAF put on show for inspection, its entire fleets after BOTH of the wars in presence of world dignitaries and aviation community. The five times bigger IAF should have annihilated the tiny PAF to prevent such displays!!!!!! Now these are FACTS - what rides on a wave of nationalism is just fiction.
 
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K2    RE:PAF vs IAF Air to Air Victories from neutral source   3/14/2005 8:55:23 PM
Pakistan Air Force link Indian Air Force link Confirmed entries are in GREEN color PAF clearly victorious?
 
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GautKaps    Re:   3/15/2005 1:01:39 AM
PP,you hit the nail on the head.... During war times we have an American counting wreckage of planes on either side of the border... Well if these guys can imagine 72 virgins awaiting matyrs in Allah's land then this sounds very realistic relatively.... This guy is a pathetic joke...Imagine such is the plight of the 'lucky' pakistani from an Islam engineering college with an american visa;How pathetic could the average Pakistani be i.e Refer to SharRukh and K2.
 
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prez-Gen    pakis have a horrible understanding   3/15/2005 1:11:19 AM
Pike asked you guys for a neutral source of info. not for your personal web page. we need hard facts not a display of your "ingenuity" online. and for 'heavily-mental' remember we have never lost our supremacy in the region after '74.
 
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prez-Gen    GRASP THIS PAKIS!!   3/15/2005 1:20:58 AM
Now either we have to believe heavy meNtal or we have to believe that pakistanis have a real shortage of good maps. There is nothing like a good map for the PAF to realise that Bombay city, the great city on indias west coast lies a mere 750km flight from karachi or gwadar. so from paki terrytory just a 2 hour flight a mach 1 speeds or 3.5 at cruising speed for their far superior air 'farce'. So why have the pakis never in the long 'glorious past' evr set flight towards Bombay. it should have been a sitting target for you guys. in '71 you guys tried to raid calcutta with US machinery and i have proof. why not mumbai? was the calcutta lesson well learnt or do fear SOMETHING? why not go for it guys? all thats stopping you is an 'inferior' IAF.
 
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K2    RE:prez-Gen   3/15/2005 8:10:21 AM
During war PAF concentrated military installations rather then civilian targets. Here is an example? ?The Indian Air Force base at Ambala was attacked by the Pakistani Air Force in both the 1965 and 1971 wars. In 1965, the Pakistanis struck Ambala and reportedly destroyed some 25 Indian planes just after they had returned from missions [the PAF did not initially claimed any IAF aircraft during the attack on Ambala due to non-availability of of damage in night bombing).? link
 
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PeregrinePike    RE:PAF vs IAF Air to Air Victories from neutral source - K2   3/15/2005 9:00:56 AM
I did check your sources, and my conclusions are: - it seems neutral to me. - it seems to distribute credit evely. - Pakistan has indeed shot down more planes than India by this confirmed source. But the difference in confirmed kills seems to be 29(Indian kills)-43(Pak kills).... nothing close to what HeavyMetal claims here. The Pak-India kill ratio seems to be 1:(3/2). His claims of 3:1 victory seems preposterous and hilarious for a self-proclaimed engineering student, huh? Any way, I did notice that among the Pak kills were many DAARF planes, what was that all about?
 
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ForJustice    Listen .... Mighty Pak   3/15/2005 2:19:25 PM
So much such a mighty .... why should visit india to get a slice of IT & ITsS knowledge to their home by a Very President of "Pak software Confederation" Miss ... Are u Jealous abt ourself, or feel inferior about yourself. All i like to say is ,you plese stop dreaming that, America will be behind you for all your misadventures . May be after IRAQ,IRAN,PA(KIss your ass whole)KISTAN in the list.
 
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Herc the Merc    I agree   3/15/2005 3:25:00 PM
For once Heavymetal and I are in agreement. Even Chuck Yeager at that time reviewed the war and said Pakistani pilots whipped the Indians. But as of late 1980s and now Pakistan is- well shall I say better at goofing up every which way possible lol. I did have a friend from Pak and we used to do simulated dogfights- in WW2 planes. He would win everytime. Yes I have to agree there is some inborn ability in Pakistan's Air force which is to be accounted for, but that edge is probably long gone.
 
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PeregrinePike    RE:I agree   3/15/2005 9:23:35 PM
"Even Chuck Yeager at that time reviewed the war and said Pakistani pilots whipped the Indians." >> Yeah, and Yuri Gagarin said otherwise.... Herc have you forgotten we were Cold War allies? And our newer we's were also Cold War allies? Plz tell me you dont believe that a "Bad Communist" was sent into space before Gagarin for human testing ;-)
 
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kommando    RE:lol!!!! like 1971 !!!   3/16/2005 1:04:49 AM
hey someone whose army was kicked out of a part of its own country for human rights voilations can only talk like this and 90000 surrendered like choicken !!!1 not even fighting!!! heheh i have seen captured colors of 21 punjab ...man wat heads would surrender regemential colors..oh right the pakis would ...heh dude why is our friendship with israel scaring you ...
 
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