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Subject: India-China border clash 1962
YelliChink    1/3/2006 1:16:23 PM
Just wondering the perspective in India side. Could anyone provide info on this border clash?
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PeregrinePike    RE:India-China border clash 1962   1/3/2006 4:58:36 PM
We (Indians) lost. Big deal... we are more used to losing than winning. 1. It was the first time India was attacked from the East rather than North-West. 2. It was the end result of naiive weltpolitik on part of Indian leadership to trust the Chinese. 3. It was an unnecessarily brutal (and in the long run - self-poisonous) action on the part of Chinese leadership. 4. Chinese had a battle-hardened organization (from Mao down to lowest privates) moving in from the recently concluded Korean War -- that was the single biggest factor in contributing to Chinese victory. My conclusion is that, based on this, Indian policy-makers should similarly use the various insurgencies and UN Peacekeeping Ops to vaccinate itself. Prepare for war to preserve the peace...
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YelliChink    RE:India-China border clash 1962   1/3/2006 5:16:42 PM
But it didn't explain that why Indian army act relatively well in Kashmir to stop commie forces and totally overrun in the east front. As far as I know, Indian forces were not prepared, the intelligence also failed, the defense is not constructed, troop deployment was terrible. Is this due to leadership problem (in theater level), or a faillure in national strategy (low alertness and lack of intelligence)? IAF is always more advanced, better equiped and better trained to PLAAF even to this day, but why didn't IAF conduct any meaningful operation to bomb into Tibet?
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PeregrinePike    RE:India-China border clash 1962   1/3/2006 5:49:25 PM
1. I would expect Indian troops in Kashmir were better acclamatized and equipped to fight a war than the troops in North-East because they were positioned to actually fight the Pakistanis in case of a rerun of 1948. This again reinforces my conclusion #4 from last post. 2. Indian leadership from Delhi was sending contradictory messages to the theater leadership. Sometimes they would order leaving strategic positions to make a statement of peace; then they would re-inforce their stupidity by making their "presence" known in un-defendable places. 3. Mao's instructions were quite simple on the other hand. It was simply to envelop every single Indian force and wait for the Indians to either retreat or move into vulnerable position. The fighting began only when the PLA leadership was confident enough it could roll in the dice. 4. Indian troops were assured they wouldnt be fighting fellow-anti-imperialist Chinese PLA. Just days before fighting began mountain accalamatized troops were given leave, and new plainsmen brought in. Chinese OTOH were bringing in veterans from Korean winter. Indian military-industry was trying to make fighters and tanks while men had Enfield .303s; you can imagine putting .303s against PLA SKS and AKs. At Company level Chinese had lot more firepower on hand than Indians. 5. Using IAF could have conceivably won the war for Indians. But the IAF was mainly British in its origin of parts -- and thus open to foreign influence. US made a deal with India to air-supply soldiers as long as IAF wasnt used. Indians had to accept that because the key word was >>conceivably won<< only history is 20/20. We might have needed American co-operation if Mao hadnt withdrawn - so we had to be on their good side. Little did we know that Americans were already planning to prop up PRC against USSR, and feared more for stability of PRC in case of a defeat at hands of India. 6. It was equal parts failure of the national strategy as theater failures. Of course it is very easy to blame a single politician and his cabinet rather than blaming hundreds of faceless incompetent Majors and Lt. Colonels. And its is more "patriotic" to back our troops - right or wrong. But it is my belief that Mao let his field-grade officers handle the war -- and we could most effectively and cheaply countered if our own field-grade officers were up to the task.
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Jawan    RE:India-China border clash 1962   1/5/2006 4:34:15 AM
Here is a Prespective!!! The real STORY and not the one propogated by China and its STooges (read Nevile etc.)
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rogue    RE:India-China border clash 1962   1/7/2006 11:19:48 PM
Hi, I'm new to the forum. I think jawan's link was a good read. Do u think the result will be significantly different this time around, if china decides to attack us?
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mithradates    RE:India-China border clash 1962   1/8/2006 1:34:19 AM
"Do u think the result will be significantly different this time around, if china decides to attack us?" Most unlikely. India lost PRIMARILY due to 2 reasons: 1. Poor interservice cooperation. Indian infantry couldn't cooperate with artillery. And the airforce simply wasn't used at all. 2. Indian politicians likes to meddle in the affairs of her generals. These 2 reasons are as valid as they were in 1962.
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Jawan    RE:India-China border clash 1962   1/8/2006 4:31:30 AM
The result would be VASTLY different this TIME. PLA got the taste of what was coming in skirmishes in 1967 and 1986 or so. They know now its near to impossible to mess around with the Tibet-India Border. That is why so much talk of peace initatives and amicably resolving border issues coming out from CHINA. No Nehru or Menon in Picture here. Now India understands the meaning of "HINDI-CHINI BHAI BHAI". PLA will be whoopped double time if it tries to mess around this time and IAF wont be sitting this time around!!!!
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rogue    RE:India-China border clash 1962   1/8/2006 10:58:25 AM
i think it will be different too. 1) IAF will not be just sitting, and the coordination among the three services has improved a lot. 2) India will not be taken by surprise this time round. That was a pretty big factor.
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mithradates    RE:India-China border clash 1962   1/8/2006 1:01:57 PM
"1) IAF will not be just sitting, and the coordination among the three services has improved a lot." List proof of successful intra and inter service cooperation. "India will not be taken by surprise this time round. That was a pretty big factor." You guys were tactically suprised at Kargil. And your intelligence service is none to sharp either.
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rogue    RE:India-China border clash 1962   1/8/2006 1:55:12 PM
if you send 2000 of your men dressed as locals to invade india; yeah we will be taken by surprise again.....but that would have the same result as kargil.....wouldn't fair very well for a "great power" like china now, would it? If we used the airforce in kargil, u can bet on it being used when china is attacking and occupying our territory....and surely u won't have air superiority over our airspace either.
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