The Strategypage is a comprehensive summary of military news and affairs.
 News As History - December 1, 2008

Dunnigan's and Bay's Latest

Advertisement



New Strategy - Wargames at Discount Prices
1.Squad Battles: Winter War
2.Silent War
3.Manoeuvre
4.Gallic Wars
5.Fast Action Battle: The Bulge

100+ Computer and Board games all with free shipping.
 
 
 

Online Giving

Utah SEO Firm

Xango

Smiley Gifts for Babies

Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use
India Discussion Board
Sign In   Return to Topic Page
Subject: Is death of Islam certain
enlighten    11/9/2005 7:20:39 PM
Recent incidents in France, Australia and Jordan indicate that there is something terribly wrong with Islam? with such suicide bombing killing innocent lives , I start hating Islam. Anybody knows what is wrong in Islam?
 
Quote    Reply
 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title     Sort in Reverse Order Posted

Pages: 1 2
PunjabiSikhWarrior    RE:Is death of Islam certain   11/10/2005 1:56:56 AM
Nothing is wrong with islam, its always been like this... its only that now they are now entering the free world; the world of the Kafir...
 
Quote    Reply

PeregrinePike    RE:Is death of Islam certain   11/10/2005 8:55:12 AM
One thing is certain... there is no way in he11 you just "started hating" Islam.
 
Quote    Reply

bitterjake    RE:Is death of Islam certain   11/10/2005 12:59:53 PM
I heard a report that the price of a suicide bomber in Iraq has gone up from 300USD to 5000 USD .. at this rate, being a suicide bomber is becoming a very lucrative job.. here is my question?.. does this person, who blow himself up get paid before or after the job :)
 
Quote    Reply

eatmee    RE:Is death of Islam certain   11/10/2005 5:22:24 PM
Serpentine, some of your comparisons are not very good. The fact is, like punjabi said, Islam has always been like this. Its just now that when after centuries of isolation, the freeworld comes along (even thpough in a friendly way) and Islam with all its archaic/and barbaric beliefs and methods doesnt get along one bit. U see the main problem with islam is that it actually is sh1t and was designed by Tards in the first place. Its basic rules are to be muslims then try to convert everyone else to become muslims wether they like it or not, or kill them, wether they be men women or children. And they dont have honor like they try to convince you, with the film kingdom of heaven. Infact muslims back then, like now try to kill, rape , plunder and steal everything they can off of the non-believers. They call the rest of the world infadels, when in actual fact all thier sh1t is the most f00ked up infedal crap anyone can think of. ANd they profess that we(normal people) commit sins, that mabe so. But THEY Commit even bigger ones. This could be explained by the fact that thier 'GREAT ' Religion is completely contradictory. It tells them to do one load of things , and then tells them to do the complete opposite ie. though must love thier neighbour, or do not kill Then it says, OH YEAH u can kill and rape as many men women and children you want, as long as they are not muslims. Thier big aim ofcourse is to try and convert and brainwash everyone into the same sick f00ked up way they live in, and if you wont go, then they will kill you.
 
Quote    Reply

career909    RE:Is death of Islam certain   11/10/2005 5:37:01 PM
religion does not die. Look at communism. It could not destroy religion in controled state.
 
Quote    Reply

eatmee    RE:Is death of Islam certain   11/10/2005 6:44:37 PM
yes it does die, all religions around today will eventually die. And its not a matter of if, its a matter of when. Because the human race moves on, the world moves on to Gods (the real Gods unstoppable beat.) and one day, in one way or another all these present day religions will eventually vanish, or chance form so thier unrecognisable. You look at the ancient religions of the past, through all of human history, and you will find that all religions have thier day and then fade away. The Egyptians had a collosal religion, which even with its magnificent reminders (pyramids) built o solid rock, eventually thier religion faded away. So too that of the ancient Incas of south america, they were actually exterminated, so extermination is a way of eliminating religion. The anicient pagans and druids faded away , and thier religion even though they trying to revive it, has died. You could consider nazisim a religion, that too will never come back like it once existed. Communisim is another matter. Communism failed because it triesd to take it away, and oppressed its people as a failing system. So the onkly thing people had left to cling onto and believe in was religion, and so it re-emerged again. after the communist regimes either collapse or allow freedom. North Korea did a very good job at it though. but all religions, will eventually pass away. Not in our life time, but in another 20,000 years i dont think islam or christianty or any of the others will still be here. Because its human beings we are talking about here, a religious book might inspire some generations, but in time those teachings will be broken down and vanish with it. Because in 20,000years time so much may have happened that people will have been through so much and so much change that they wil have found other things/new religions to believe in. And no matter whatever things a religion builds to keep the world under it, books. temples of stone all will vanish in the abyss of time. nothing lasts forever. Not even the man who created it. Islam is being erroded, as it rightfully should be, to any muslim or person who lives with it, because it causes trouble and it restricts human progress, so any smart person will dump it or change it eventually. These things already happened to christianity, once thousands upon thousand went to church, now hardly anybody, because it doesnt fit in daily life well either. And Christianity changed massively, they allow many things that they once forbid, also people who diddnt like it stopped going. All that intoaccount and christianity has only existed for 2000 years, the time span of the earth is BILLIONS OF YEARS , and in just another 20,000 things will be unrecognisable becase , in 2000years things have changed into the world of today, differentt massively from when christianity first began. And if say humans died out thier religion will go with them. as certain as the dinosaurs, you go lok at the fossils in the museum. And if robots take over the world , they may have guiding code like a religion, but it wont be called 'religion' even though it is, and it wont be your religion. They will whorship the MegaRobot God or something. EXACTLY things make up and believe in thier own God for comfort and for guidance. And if religion be a product of a part of/ or function of the human mind, then it will be constantly changing , and revolving for ever. it wont keep the same thing, successive generations will believe different. AS we change through evolution, as well as the world around us. Religions will come and go, forever, that is what you can pobally say, whether they be held by Cavemen Humans, Robots or Ewoks. Try lapoo.com ,marilyn manson got it rigght , you believe in your own personal jesus..check it out. In short, your religion, along with and like everything else will be tossed up then settle to the ground be trodden on and crushed down under century upon century of soil and rock, into the very fabric of the erath that will disintegrate it and it will not exist any more.
 
Quote    Reply

Amit from Mumbai       7/25/2007 6:39:23 AM
its not just the countries u mentioned ... where ever on planet there is a conflict which you come across through some source of media has some way or the other muslim name in it.

How different countries have been effected by islam and muslim invaders can be found through this link: link
I think you all will agree to the fact if the founder of a religion was a general, who led many capaigns against other communities mainly arabs, then what else can we expect from them apart from what they are doing ...
there is a saying in hindi "poot ke paanv paalne mein dikhayidete hain"
It means: "Fate and destiny of a entity can be predicted by the way it takes birth and rises"
check this out at wikipedia: link
 
Quote    Reply

kane       7/25/2007 7:00:48 AM
Nothing wrong with Islam but something is definetly wrong with Muslims.I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain this but.....Muslims think everything will be fine when they die.They don't work hard and relate everything to religion.
And everything is a result of this.Do you think religion is studied hard in Europe?No most doesn't even know what they're praying at.
It's not Islam which tell people to kill it's the Muslims who gets it wrong

 
Quote    Reply

kane       7/25/2007 7:02:34 AM
this religion came around 600s and took it's shape according to medieval standarts.Most Muslims couldn't advance and are still in medieval age isn't that obvious?
In Europe people reformed themselves, were they better before 16th century?

 
Quote    Reply

AdvanceAustralia       7/25/2007 3:02:16 PM

this religion came around 600s and took it's shape according to medieval standarts.Most Muslims couldn't advance and are still in medieval age isn't that obvious?
In Europe people reformed themselves, were they better before 16th century?

Kane, you're quite correct in attributing at least some of Islam's problems to the Medieval period. We also call this era the "Dark Ages". This era followed the fall of the Roman Empire (and the end of the "Classical" Age) and preceded (was ended by) the Renaissance, during which Europe "reformed" or, more correctly, "renewed" itself. Reformation is more accurately used in reference to the establishment of Christian Protestantism but was probably attributable to, or at least influenced by, the Renaissance. Thus, an important element of Christianity was able to move forward in time rather than being "stuck" in time.

To answer your question, Europeans were as good (or at least had similar living standards) during the Pax Romanus. Indeed, Winston Churchill, in his tome A History of the English Speaking Peoples, made the point that after the Romans left England, the English people did not enjoy as good a standard of living again until the Industrial Revolution was well underway in the 19th Century.

Cheers.

 
Quote    Reply

ameer_r2    Hating Islam   8/6/2007 5:49:29 AM
 

The haters of Islam, Muslims, the Prophet Muhammad have been around since the time the message of surrender to the will of Allah was first propagated to the pagan Arabs and to the Christians and Jews living in Arabia.  

All the opponents banded together militarily to no avail and Islam spread (not by the sword as Christianity did in the areas of imperialist conquest or by inheritance as Judaism or Hinduism or other ethnic or racial religions). Of course, there were incidents, as in India where a Moghul emperor tried to impose it on his subjects but this was the exception for the most part as evidenced by the survival of a religion deemed polytheism or idol worship by scholars. The modern stress of Hindu scholars is that it is basically monotheistic but uses images to help the simple worshipper. The history of Muslim rule does have incidents of forced conversion and violence but much less than Christianity. As a missionary religion, it has gained converts more by peaceful means than war. The Turks who conquered the Arabs were conquered themselves peacefully by Islam and though them occupied a large portion of Eastern Europe. However,only Bosnia and Albania had large numbers of converts and only a small minority of Christians became Muslim as the church and the priests controlled the masses and used Christianity as a national identity to preserve their ethnic identity. As the Arabs and Turks gained extra income from non-Muslims because of the "jizya", the capitulation tax, that exempted non-Muslims from military service, there was not a strong campaign to convert them. The strong ethnic/racial component of the adherents of other faiths also was an obstacle in conversion.

The fighting against the unbelievers especially the pagan Arabs was against those who were aggressors out to destroy Islam or to fight Mughal imperialism as with the Punjabi Sikhs who wanted independence and became adherents of a new religion that combined Hinduism and Islam. Sikhism became a warrior religion and a minority have chosen terrorism to try to set up a separate state. Like the Tamils they engaged in suicide bombings and killed civilians.

Christendom was aggressive in trying to counter Islam and to re-conquer the Holy Land which they recently did after WW I and again by supporting the establishment of a Jewish entity there. The Jews also engaged in terrorism before the establishment of Israel and during the ’48 war where they massacred whole villages to drive the Palestinians from their land. One might ask what the Jews would have done if the Arabs had won the war and how much support they would have received from the West to regain what they lost.

After the removal of colonialist control of Muslim lands in the Middle East and Asia after WW II there was a resurgence of Islam that was suppressed by Muslim secular and nationalist rulers with the support of the West who saw a resurgent Islam as a danger to oil interests and the security of the State of Israel which continues its illegal occupation of Palestinian lands through illegal annexation and expansion of settlements..

The strategy of the West is flawed and unbalanced and seeks to avoid the unification and democratization of Muslim countries and the independence of some like Chechnya or Mindano in the Phillipines. A moderate Somali government with the help of the US and Ethiopia receives support to counter the Islamic oriented party. Arab nationalism failed and the Arabs turned to Islam but in Algeria,Tunisia, Egypt, Syria, Jordan and other areas they are suppressed through intimidation, jailing, torture and with the economic and military support of the US.

The political-nationalist form of Islam grew out of this in the formation of Pakistan and its problems with India regarding the Muslim majority state of Kashmir.

Terrorism mixed with genuine freedom fighting insurgency has stained the name of Islam as a religion of peace and provided fuel for the Islam bashers to demonize Islam, Muslims and the Prophet. In one sense, Muslims must accept their share of the responsibility in failing to develop a genuine Islamic mentality and outlook in the masses. Political Islam seeks to change the society from the top down using violence if necessary especially when democratic means are blocked.

Secularism has become a religion in Turkey and Tunisia and an alternative to shari’at rule in other Muslim countries to a lesser extent. People want to see Islamic justice and a consultative rule by freely selected representatives who rule according to Islamic values based on the Qur'an and the Hadith (the example of the Prophet)

When did all this terrorism and suicide bombings begin? Like all terrorism, whether in Germany, Spain, Italy etc., it begins with a fanatic band of zealots who see no way to achieve their agenda quickly other than by force. However, in the case of Muslims, they see an enemy outside their own lands as well. Osama bin Laden saw the US as an obstacle in getting rid of the Saudi regime and acted accordingly. Though he got a religious ruling from a fanatic scholar, on the legitimacy of killing innocents, it is still considered unacceptable by the majority of scholars and individual Muslims. However, the frustration of the Palestinians and the Muslim street made him a hero in taking on the US as a supporter of its enemy, Israel. In order to capture him, the US decided to take on the Taliban, a group of ignorant but sincere Muslim zealots and support the Afghan nationalists and then to find an excuse to invade Iraq. This has caused an expansion of terrorism throughout the world leaving moderate Muslims in a difficult position of wanting to condemn all violence but not wanting to appear as if they are supporting US policy. It became the so-called yes-but justification, which is not ethically justifiable though it may be understandable.

To take verses from the Qur’an out of context to justify a perpetual aggressive war against all non-Muslims neglects the other verses which condemn aggression and advise making peace except with those who have shown that they could not honor their agreements.

There is a clear agenda on the part of fundamentalist Christians, radical Zionists and neo-cons to demonize Islam. This is to counter any influence of Muslims in the US and to maintain the special relationship it has with Israel.

Those British Muslim terrorists manifest an identity problem that is not present in the US. It does mirror the lack of identity that they have in a land where they were born.

The attacks in Spain and elsewhere by Al-Qaeeda inspired terrorists is part of the radicalization of Muslims who feel that the West is making war on Islam and preventing the establishment of any government based on Islam or seeks the re-establishment of a Caliphate that would unite Muslim states.

Muslims look back on their glorious history and feel humiliated when they reflect on their present condition, politically, economically and intellectually and feel that most of the blame is due to the oppression of the West and lately its support of undemocratic governments and Israel. Muslims must also face the deep rooted problems in their own lands and societies that have not followed Islamic principles. Exploitation of the masses by extremists that is exacerbated by the short-sighted policies of the West remains a problem for any reformation in the way Islam is taught and practiced.

The rise of the Shia state of Iran that is controlled by an ayatollah set up government is now the focus of a particularly US policy that would prefer a purely secular state that represents no threat to their hegemony of the Middle East.

I realize that I may not have been clear enough in explaining my position and some may find my conclusions to cover the goal of Islamdom to rule over the world through jihad and terrorism but I hope that some may try to be objective and read some books that can enlighten them about Islam as a religion that promotes peace but resists aggression and has shown that it has been struggling to survive from attacks by Christendom and by Western imperialism.

I am an American where Muslims can live according to Islam in a way that some Muslim countries do not allow.

If the present political chaos, anarchy, oppression can be alleviated so that Muslims can choose their own form of government and way of life then the violence and terrorism will disappear. As long as Islam and Muslims are viewed as the new enemy after godless Communism and isolated, there can be no improvement.
Muslims must learn to accept constructive criticicism and develop the infrstructure to be able to refrom the societies that have not been able to progress It rquires the cooperation of Jews,Chirstians, Hindus and other moderates who are ready to live side by side with Muslims as neighbors not enemies.
 Sincerely
Ameer Raschid

 

 

 
Quote    Reply

ameer_r2    Guru Gobind Singh    8/6/2007 2:27:15 PM
Quote from y reply,"I realize that I may not have been clear enough in explaining my position ..."
 
Thank you very much for your critical assesment of my reply.  My daughters generally has the same opinion when I do not take the trouble to revise and organixe my stream of consciousness(or unconsciousness) replies.
I will have to be more careful when even Indians can evaluate my English.
However, I am not an Asian but a born in the US, born Muslim , from a converted European father who became Muslim in Calcutta under British rule. Though I am a university graduate and have worked as an editor, I usually write quickly and overlong and hope that some of my points get through. I apologize for my carelessness.
My only purpose was to try to show that though Islam, like other faiths, is judged more by the example of the ordinary believer and usually the most radical one.
I am 76 years old and have travelled throughout the Muslim world, including India and Pakistan. I have met many different kinds of Muslims and have seen that the Muslim world is very diverse and has been afffected negatively by political conditions and changes, most of which have resulted in reacting rather than developing rational strategic responses.
My understanding of Islam as a believer cannot be compared to those who critize or attack it from the outside for reasons that only they are fully aware of.
I defend my religion and am ready to criticize Muslims and myself for our deficiencies in practice and understanding.
Best regards
 
 
Quote    Reply

thalaiwaar       5/3/2008 12:49:48 PM
Islam was hijacked by radicals. Unfortunately it' not properly organized religion. The muslim women were getting worst treatment like animals. They were deprived of their fundamental rights as human beings. The innocent kids were taught that all other religions as infidels which is absolutely shame. Moreever, they were telling allah approved killing other religions which will ensure your way to heaven. I am an indian. I have ravelled across Gulf, UK,Asia Pacific and US during my emplyment. I was questioned and abused about my religion whenever i meet muslims. I lost respect on islam bcoz of this.In pakisthan(no need of introduction about this country as every human being knows what it is), even 13 yr old hindu girls were abducted and married to criminals and the courts are approving it as marriage. If that girl resists, they will rape her and kill her. All other religions in pakisthan were suppressed through violence. In bangladesh, during 1971 war, bangladeshi muslim women were raped by pakisthani army (more than 2,00,000 women). It's the indiangovt, which saved bangladeshis. But later the bangladeshi muslims started killing local hindus without any reason. Slowly the mullahs are making islam a synonym of destruction. It's very painful that even 8 yr old kid was taught to hate other religions. Even if i were a muslim, i can't defend islam in any way.       
 
Quote    Reply

historynut       5/3/2008 2:42:57 PM
I think it's simple, knowing how to read. If you look at counties where most Muslim's are able to read (Turkey, India) there is less killing. People able to read the Koran on there own don't seem to go out and kill people. The ones doing the killing are being told by others what the Koran says because they can not read it by themselfs. The people saying that the Koran says killing innocent's with suicide bombing never seem to do it themselfs. If you read the Koran it says in more then one place to protect the innocent. Just like the Bible does. You can pick parts of the Bible and use them to say that God wants you to kill someone.
 
Quote    Reply

theBird       6/1/2008 8:39:04 PM
I admit I haven't read the Koran, but I have read the Old Testament and its pretty much the story of a bunch of Bronze age Barbarians murdering innocent people in the name of "Yahweh".  There are fundy Muslims just the same as there are fundy Christians, and there are Muslims who belive a literal interpretation of a bunch of random fairy tales written by some dude a couple hundred years ago is asinine just like there are Christians who believe literal interpreation of fairy tales about Bronze age Barbarians is moronic.   Its just that until the 2000 election the most fundy Christians were allowed to rule was a local Sheriff's department, while fundy Muslims were allowed to rule entire nations.  If we decided to keep GWB and company in power for the next 100 years, we'd probably be as messed up as most Muslim counties (he's already out to end stem cell research and the theory of evolution as "Offensive in the eyes of Yahweh"), but unlike them we're gonna kick the fundys out after 8 years instead of letting them rule for generations. 
 
Quote    Reply
Pages: 1 2

StrategyWorld.com© 1998 - 2008StrategyWorld.com. All rights Reserved. StrategyWorld.com, StrategyPage.com, FYEO, For Your Eyes Only and Al Nofi's CIC are all trademarks of StrategyWorld.com Privacy Policy