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Subject: How exactly do you counter stealth?
-Gatecrasher-    7/8/2004 3:26:18 PM
If there is a way to coutner it at all, what is the technology behind it?
 
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kjetski    RE:How exactly do you counter stealth?   7/8/2004 5:48:04 PM
More power! Brute force and ignorance.
 
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doggtag    RE:How exactly do you counter stealth?   7/8/2004 6:20:57 PM
It depends on what areas of low-observability your stealth tech exploits: radar, visual, acoustic, or thermal. For radar stealth, the solution will be improved developments in radar technologies and effective tactics. The same can be said for using improved sonars and methods to track low observable submarines (technically, subs were stealthy long before aircraft). And thermally, improvements in IR spectrum processing and detection systems may eventually be able to pick out even a slightly cooled jet exhaust from the ambient background air temperature spectrum. This is years out, but it is feasible..
 
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Galderio    RE:How exactly do you counter stealth?   7/12/2004 11:16:16 AM
There are the bi-statics radar systens. In many cases it works better than tradicional antenas. Like the SA-11.
 
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displacedjim    RE:How exactly do you counter stealth?   7/13/2004 9:49:15 AM
What radar associated with the SA-11 is bi-static? Displacedjim
 
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Galderio    RE:How exactly do you counter stealth?displacedjim   7/13/2004 12:49:27 PM
I´m not a specialist as you. It is very hard to find military books here in Brazil. Maybe not the SA-11, but you still can build a system where the receptor antena is far away from the transmiter. Stealth aircrafts have very low frontal RCS and part of the radar´s energy is reflected to other directions that are not forward. A bi-static system could dectect that sides reflected energy. 1-What do think about this? 2-Why the SA-11 TEL has it´s own antena(radar dish) and the SA-6 does not? 3-Do you know any missile system that uses bi-static radars? - João -
 
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displacedjim    RE:How exactly do you counter stealth?displacedjim   7/13/2004 7:40:58 PM
"Maybe not the SA-11, but you still can build a system where the receptor antena is far away from the transmiter. Stealth aircrafts have very low frontal RCS and part of the radar´s energy is reflected to other directions that are not forward. A bi-static system could dectect that sides reflected energy. "1-What do think about this? "2-Why the SA-11 TEL has it´s own antena(radar dish) and the SA-6 does not? "3-Do you know any missile system that uses bi-static radars?" ----------- 1) You are right on target, and bi-static is one technology that's been discussed with regard to increased detection and tracking capability against stealthy aircraft. Assuming you can master the signal processing and establish an emitter-receiver network, it may well be useful. 2) Other SAM designs do, as well. The acronym to describe the two designs is TEL (Transporter-Erector-Launcher) and TELAR (Transporter-Erector-Launcher-and-Radar). For example, the SA-8 also uses a TELAR. Virtually all radar-guided SAMs are something other than active homing, thus they need guidance commands passed to them based on tracking from an off-missile radar. Except for certain very modern radars, most Target Tracking/Missile Guidance radars can only pass data on one target at a time. Therefore, regardless of how many missiles and launch rails you have, you can only shoot at one time at as many targets as you have TT/MG radars. If you have one on each TEL, making it a TELAR, then each TELAR becomes capable of an independent target engagement. Two, three, or four SA-6 TELs associated with one STRAIGHT FLUSH TT/MG means engaging only one target at a time; two, three, or four SA-11 TELARs with a FIRE DOME on each means engaging up to two, three, or four targets at once. 3) No, and I wouldn't expect to for quite some time. First off, it's hard enough with a network of several long range, relatively lower frequency Early Warning radars. But that only provides detection and tracking. Then trying to do it with the types of radars you need for target engagement will be even more difficult, particularly to meet the real-time requirement for actual missile guidance. Alles klar? Displacedjim
 
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Galderio    RE:How exactly do you counter stealth?displacedjim   7/20/2004 9:05:30 AM
Thank you very much! Here, most of our ADs are Sa-16 and stationary 35mm canons, the rest is probably obsolet. We have a very limited air defense capability. -Galdereio-
 
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Crosshair    RE:How exactly do you counter stealth, some ideas   8/2/2004 4:23:04 PM
The only CURRENT method to counter stealth is to have mobile command center and to put your AA defenses on orphanages and hospitals (Not PC but effective) Also have your AA move around too. Stealth aircraft have very limited "search and destroy" capabilities. If they can't target them, they can't send them in to strike. If you have a fixed position you can smoke screen the thing to make laser bombs and IR useless. (B2 uses GPS bombs, so it won't work for that.) Posibly the best defence is to develope a FCR that can detect the bombs themselves and shoot them into shrapnel before they hit the ground/target. If they can shoot down cruse missles at 500 mph then it should be no problem to use it for bomb's. The bombs themselves are not stealth so would be easy to detect. Also, with the F-117 is it possible to track the aircraft from the laser beam it emmits, put direction detectors on possible targets and link them to a fire control system. I am not saying such methods are or would be effective, but they are possible ideas.
 
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wagner95696    RE:How exactly do you counter stealth, some ideas   8/2/2004 4:56:00 PM
The Australians have reported that their long range over the horizon radar system detected B-2 take offs and landings in Texas! Another newer proposal is to use ordinary radio and television transmissions, the sky is filled with them, to illuminate the targets and to use a frequency hopping receiver coupled with sophisticated computers to analyze the returns. This could be very effective as there are so many civilian transmitters that they would not immediately attract air strikes. Also, they operate on so many frequencies it would complicate aerial jamming by attacking aircraft.
 
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gf0012-aust    Over the Horizon Radar - US and Aust   8/2/2004 9:34:06 PM
The fact that the US has signed a co-participation document to be involved in future development of the Australian JORN system should be a clue of how valid and useful they see the tech. There is also a second Australian system that is capable of detecting stealth - it has a much shorter range of only 4-500km. The JORN system also has had anecdotal comment about being able to see stinkbugs over Bagdhad. Considering the way that the ionosphere can work, it's not as far fetched as people may think. It's official range is 3500+ km. It has detected aircraft substantially further than that in certain conditions.
 
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