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Subject: Is the russian S-400 the best air defense system in the world??
Military Strength    4/15/2004 3:57:30 PM
S-400 or the American PAC 3?
 
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Adamantine    RE:reply to felixA9   1/14/2005 2:08:23 PM
PAC2 drag to weight ratio and weight to propellent ratio is about the same as PAC3. PAC2 range is only slighly more than PAC3 despite being 2.88 times heavier. Thats because the greatly increase length to diameter ratio of PAC-3 greatly reduces drag of PAC3 compare to PAC2. The larger motor of PAC2 is wasted in overcoming correspondingly highere drag and weight. PAC3 propellant is also likely to have higher energy density although only by a little more. PAC3 MSE (missile segment enhancement) improved version has 100% longer range than the current PAC3 when fired against airbreathing target (eg aircraft). PAC-3 MSE is much longer range than PAC-2 GEM although PAC-3 is proobably less than 350kg while PAC-2 Gem is easily 900kg.
 
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frenk    RE:Is the russian S-400 the best air defense system in the world??   2/3/2005 7:59:17 AM
think of it ya2....usa's patriot missile or the pac3 has been already proven very effective against air attack...i donno about the s-400...
 
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adaremf    RE:patriot   2/7/2005 1:39:16 PM
Your wrong Andyf. It was only a matter of time before someone who was there showed up on this forum. Well here I am. Not only did the patriot engage and destroy several Scud missles; some of which you will not be told about specifically, but the lessons learned have been incorporated into the latest PDB updates. I don't know much about the Rapier system, but you have been misguided as to the patriot.
 
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glenn239    Question for adaremf   2/7/2005 8:19:21 PM
The 60 minutes piece on the Patriot amused me the most. In one minute they were claiming it couldn'thit a thing (Scuds), the next they were upset that Patriot stuck 2 missiles almost right in the pits of coalition aircraft. Anyways - Can Patriot "see" HARM missiles? Can it shoot them down? How quickly can the radar unit be moved after shutting down?
 
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adaremf    RE:Question for adaremf   2/7/2005 11:25:17 PM
The PDB III system I worked with performed as anticipated. However comparing the engagement of aircraft and ballistic missle threats is a non-sequitor. The algorithims involved are different, so to speak, Countering an inbound missle threat invoves a much more acute angle of attack and considerably higher speed, whereas an aircraft tends to have a more horizontal approach and relatively constant speed. I guess it would be easy to see which is the easier target to engage.As far as friendly fire incidents...Those are not necessarily faults of the patriot system unless included in that system are the OPERATORS. Each case can be attributed to an inaccurate IFF response to an interrogation by the missle system operators, or the incorrect IFF codes being loaded into the challenge system at the patriot fire control center. The missle itself does what it is told by the FCC, until the last few moments where the seeker head assumes command and control over the flight. If a friendly aircraft were in VERY close proximity , and failed an IFF challenge then it would be possible for a mistaken kill. As far as I know this was not the case in any of the friendly accidents. As far as breakdown and mobility, we would shoot for 45 minuted to teardown , have the FCC loaded and the radar hooked up to the prime mover. Usually we had to wait at that point for the rest of the battery to catch up.
 
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Herc the merc    RE:Is the russian S-400 the best air defense system in the world??   2/8/2005 12:24:03 PM
Very unlikely. The S-300 had some very unreliable test results, and downright funny tests( 1 test was actually dumping a broken Mig-21 out of a transport plane as a target, I think I could build a missile to hit that). I haven't seen any proving ground results for the S-400, barring Russian reports which are very biased.
 
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glenn239    RE:Question for adaremf   2/9/2005 7:15:02 PM
Ok, I'm reading you as saying that the Patriot cannot reliably shoot down HARM missiles, but can see them. What about a point-defense system - say SA17 Grizzly? 45 minutes to move. What's your opinion on SA10C's mobility after engagement? I'm wondering specifically if it is possible to move right after firing on account of an incentive to do so (ie, incoming HARM shot).
 
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EW3    RE:Is the russian S-400 the best air defense system in the world??   4/13/2005 4:49:53 PM
Might bring light to the subject. It appears Russia and Belarus are deploying S-300s to increase their air defenses. http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/0/28.html?id_issue=11269521 Russia, Belarus to boost air defenses on western borders BARANOVICHI. April 13 (Interfax-West) - Belarussian President Alexander Lukashenko said more air defense troops will be deployed on the western borders of the Russia-Belarus Union. Several Russian S-300 systems will be delivered to Belarus, Lukashenko said during a visit to the Obuz-Lesnovsky testing ground on Wednesday. "As far as the re-deployment of several S-300 systems to Belarus is concerned, this matter has been decided," the president said. "This measure will allow us to enhance our air defenses in the West. The air defense troops deployed on the western borders protect both Belarus and Russia," he said. Commenting on bilateral military-technical cooperation, Lukashenko said that "the Russian Federation has already started providing Belarus with all the kinds of weapons in which we are interested at domestic [Russian] prices. We and the Russian army purchase them at the same prices," he said.
 
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boris the romanian    RE:Is the russian S-400 the best air defense system in the world??   4/27/2005 9:09:19 AM
"The S-300 had some very unreliable test results, and downright funny tests( 1 test was actually dumping a broken Mig-21 out of a transport plane as a target, I think I could build a missile to hit that). I haven't seen any proving ground" IIRC, when the S-300PMU was being marketed to Middle Eastern clients, one of the key criteria was its ability to shoot down tactical missiles like SCUD. The Russians did the easiest and cheapest marketing stunt. They took a bunch of Middle Eastern military officials down to a Siberian firing range, set up a S-300PMU battery and fired a SCUD in its general vicinity. "Grumble" intercepted the missile and blew it out of the sky. The explosion was so violent the SCUD's warhead cooked off in flight. IIRC, this was in 1995. The S-300PMU-II is a considerably improved version that became operational in around 2000. I don't think S-400 is overrated at all.
 
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bazos    RE:Is the russian S-400 the best air defense system in the world??   5/9/2005 6:41:31 AM
go and ask Saddam if you want to answer to that question.Saddam was in airwar during more than ten years with exclusion in south and north and around bagdad despite the fact that he was help by russian ,chinese ,french, german ,ukranian and others against US airForce which protected chiite in the south and kurds to the north. Shortly Saddam Hussein is well placed to know what happened to his best Airdefence made of anticoalition force hardwares (Russian ,french, german , belgium , luxembourg ukranien yugolsvia chinese...etc... ) all with their netted airdefence than any others
 
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