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Subject: From Desperation Comes Change In Arabia
SYSOP    5/27/2015 5:30:26 AM
 
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keffler25       5/27/2015 8:27:21 AM
Why is Iran labeled 'clever and diabolical' when Saudi Arabia does the exact same thing and gets a free pass? It's true that Iran is an enemy, but let's be clear that it isn't the only enemy, nor necessarily the main enemy among the Muslim states who hate America.  
 
Given a choice, I know where America's long term interests actually lie. And it isn't with Wahabbist barbarians.     
 
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Docduracoat    Saudis as allies?   5/27/2015 9:25:28 AM
I agree. All the 911 terrorists were Saudi, as well as Osama bin Laden. The Saudis have been spreading a hate filled version of Islam called Wahabism through a network of religious schools. These Madrassas are opening all over the Muslim world and are promoting jihad and terrorism. It only takes one generation of this kind of "education" to turn an entire country from easy going Islam to extremist fundamentalism. The real global war on terrorism will be won or lost in the world of ideas. So far the West is losing. We have nothing to counter this global system of schools poisoning the minds of the next generation. We cannot bomb our way to victory when there is a huge supply of graduates from these schools to continue the jihad.
 
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Spiky    A little correction   5/27/2015 10:45:03 AM
"from easy going Islam to extremist fundamentalism."....... better written, from easy going Islam to -LITERAL- reading of Islam: what the West calls extremism is the NORM in the writings of the Koran and Hadiths. Understand, "easy going Islam" means -ignoring- the jihadi writings of Islam. Islam by nature is extreme, aggressive, and conquer driven (that is the big white elephant in the room most don't dare point out), if one just accepts it as written. So, even if one could manage to get rid of the Wahabis, the jihadi-torch would be picked up by the Muslim Brotherhood, and if you got rid of them, then another jihadi group from the Shiites or Sunnis or Sufis (Turkey) would pick up the torch of Islamic Jihad. Only, yes only, if the Jihadi chop-heading, killing, medieval-war-booty passages are -removed or neutralized- from the Koran and Hadiths would we see a significant and dramatic global drop to Islamic-Caliphate terrorism. And, understand, the religious leaders and Ulama of Islam would never consider the removal of such passages from their writings. Why? Because they are Islam! and the cold reality is that deep down inside most of them believe these jihadi passages, even if they don't actively practice them or publically support them.
 
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Johnny    A little correction   5/28/2015 5:18:29 PM
Not to mention the fact that the Coran, like the Bible, is considered to be the inerrant word of God by the believers of such writings.  Good luck in toning down the nasty bits. 
 
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Spiky    A little correction   5/31/2015 11:08:39 PM
Inerrancy is not the problem by itself. The problem is when an ideology considered inerrant (as is the case with Islam) calls for --FORCED-- conversion/subjugation of unbelievers with no freedom of conscience, choice, criticism, or critical thinking. Last time I checked the Jew's Tanach and the Christian's writings don't literally call for forced conversions or subjugation. To make the point, consider in general the stark differences in freedom between Saudi Arabia and Israel both bastions of their ideologies.
 
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keffler25       6/1/2015 9:30:39 AM
 
Did you NOTICE the USAF style base layouts and unit patch heraldry?   
 
ROTFLMAO. Look like a German Landheer, fight like a German Landheer      
 
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Johnny       6/2/2015 9:17:37 AM


Don't worry, Christianity has done its share of forced conversions. Talking about criticism and critical thinking ever seen those signs in front of churches which read 'Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has'? Says a lot doesn't it?
You do know the state constitutions of several states in the US bar people from holding public office if they do not believe in a supreme being. 
Several verses in the bible, Deutronomy 13:12-16 Deuteronomy 17:2-7 Exodus 22:20 and other verses, basically say kill those who don't share the same religion as you. So Islam is not alone in that respect.
One difference between Saudi Arabia and Israel is that SA is a theocracy, Israel is not (a Halachic state). The Basic Law of Israel hammers that point home: 'Israel is a Jewish and Democratic State'. 
As I said in my preceeding post good luck in removing the nasty bits in all those so called inerrant holy books whatever the religion.
 
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keffler25       6/2/2015 11:39:33 AM
That includes Das Kapital and the Communist Manifesto as errant religious texts.
 
One final warning.: "What the mind [of man] conceives as physically possible, so far, IS." If there is no god, that just means we haven't built one... yet.
 
That would be Robert Heinlein by the way.
 
 
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Johnny    Das Kapital & The Communist Manifesto   6/4/2015 4:46:16 AM
At least these texts do not threaten you with being roasted for eternity in Hell while the righteous laugh at you from Heaven if you do not believe in the texts unlike their religious counterparts.  Marx got one thing right calling religion the opium of the people, a bit like the quote attributed to Seneca the Younger.
 
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keffler25       6/4/2015 8:40:03 AM
Nonsense. You are not being objective. There is no distinction at all between the fascist, the Aztec (extinct) the Muslim, you (communist) or anyone who practices a superstition that ultimately uses death as the threat to force compliance to a set of scientifically proven invalid set of beliefs.
 
Funny that you claimed Marx got it right, when he did exactly the same thing any other crazed lunatic who founds a religion did; create a set of rules to live by and then asserts violence will be the ultimate proof of his rules 'correctness'.
 
Don't you see your error?     .         
At least these texts do not threaten you with being roasted for eternity in Hell while the righteous laugh at you from Heaven if you do not believe in the texts unlike their religious counterparts.  Marx got one thing right calling religion the opium of the people, a bit like the quote attributed to Seneca the Younger.

 
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