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Subject: Accounting For Iron Dome
SYSOP    7/16/2014 6:04:08 AM
 
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dogberry       7/16/2014 10:54:53 AM
Does Israel have CRAM or an equivalent?
 
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keffler25       7/16/2014 11:26:03 AM
Point defense missile family called Barak. From reported tests and operational use, it appears to be a very good but extremely expensive (naval) system.
 
Israel does not as yet have a Vulcan cannon system or anything like  it for land defense against mortars and free flight missiles. . 
Does Israel have CRAM or an equivalent?

 
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dogberry       7/16/2014 12:18:59 PM
Thank you K25, Is there a way for Israel to position its troops to allow for Baraks to cover all of Gaza? This would save Iron Dome for Hez rockets out of Lebanon.
 
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keffler25       7/16/2014 2:01:50 PM
1. I don't know.
2. Barak appears to be extremely expensive for the type of rockets Hezbollah uses. Actually Iron Dome would be a better more cost effective solution against crap like the GRAD stove pipe rocket. It costs a lot less than Barak and would be worth the half billion to deploy a few more firing batteries (4) to complete the north south coverage.  
 
As an addenda, anything that can handle a Mach 1.4-1.9 missile barrage from 0 to 10,000 meters altitude would be death to a piloted aircraft or even a typical UAV between 100-10,000 meters, especially an Arab one   
Thank you K25,

Is there a way for Israel to position its troops to allow for Baraks to cover all of Gaza? This would save Iron Dome for Hez rockets out of Lebanon.

 
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Don Vandervelde    lethal rocket, mortor and atillery killer   7/17/2014 5:22:13 PM
Not sure what Barak is, but iron dome can compute the landing spot for missiles in seconds, it should also compute and arm the gps or other smart precision guided return fire to obliterate the enemy firing position, in seconds, to obliterate it. Thus sending attackers and associates instantly to Islamic heaven, just as a special favour to them.
 
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keffler25       7/17/2014 7:40:51 PM
1. Think of it as a superior form of Rolling Airframe Missile (SEARAM/Sidewinder) applied to naval ship defense.
 
2. Iron Dome would not be doing anything unique in that respect. There are several artillery counterbattery radar backtrack systems used by several nations (including Israel) that existed prior to Iron Dome. The problem comes in when the counterbattery mission is laid on. If it takes more than three minutes to arrive; the people you want to kill have probably fled the origin point leaving behinds their Human shields to become propaganda murder victims of the 'cruel Israelis' that is a wasted fire mission. The counterbattery also may be moot due to other good political reasons. The Arabs are known to launch from hospitals, schools, and civilian neighborhoods. Now personally I have no problem with blowing up a Madras full of future terrorists in training and other assorted barbarians, but a school IS still a school as far as the world press is concerned.           
 
Not sure what Barak is, but iron dome can compute the landing spot for missiles in seconds, it should also compute and arm the gps or other smart precision guided return fire to obliterate the enemy firing position, in seconds, to obliterate it. Thus sending attackers and associates instantly to Islamic heaven, just as a special favour to them.

 
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WarNerd       7/18/2014 5:00:55 AM
2. Iron Dome would not be doing anything unique in that respect. There are several artillery counterbattery radar backtrack systems used by several nations (including Israel) that existed prior to Iron Dome. The problem comes in when the counterbattery mission is laid on. If it takes more than three minutes to arrive; the people you want to kill have probably fled the origin point leaving behinds their Human shields to become propaganda murder victims of the 'cruel Israelis' that is a wasted fire mission. The counterbattery also may be moot due to other good political reasons. The Arabs are known to launch from hospitals, schools, and civilian neighborhoods. Now personally I have no problem with blowing up a Madras full of future terrorists in training and other assorted barbarians, but a school IS still a school as far as the world press is concerned.           
Counter battery radar was standard issue equipment in NATO and Warsaw Pact arsenals since the Vietnam War.
 
Targeting the Hamas rocket launchers is moot anyway, since most of the launchers are one-shot disposables fired remotely or by timer. They learned a long time ago not to be anywhere around when the missiles were fired.
 
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PMonjo    Rocket barrage   7/20/2014 3:11:34 AM
The Hamas may be able to get their rocket barrages through to their targets by shooting chaff or flare rockets along with their barrages to air burst to negate the Iron Domes effectiveness. Fill these with aluminium or magnesium foil. Also the rockets could use cluster sub munitions or chemical agents to increase effectiveness.
 
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PMonjo    Tunnels   7/20/2014 3:24:29 AM
Hamas is using tunnels for both hiding and infiltration now. But the could also utilize this to build anti-tank pit traps to cause Israeli AFVs to fall into. They can also breach the Gaza wall by tunneling directly under and parallel to it. So I see they are adapting well against a world-class military.
 
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PMonjo    Rockets   7/20/2014 3:38:16 AM
Rocket warheads could easily be adapted to deliver time release of cluster sub munitions or simply packed with heavy nails/ spikes. Even chemical payloads like chlorine or cyanide/ acid are possible, but this comes at extreme risk to the operator.
 
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