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Subject: Solid State Lasers In The 100kW Range
doggtag    2/19/2010 9:29:18 AM
OK so it's been suggesting various times that for a laser system to be considered "weapons grade" in its output, it needs to achieve the 100kW range. Here's the latest developments, courtesy of Defense-Aerospace.Com's Feb 19, 2010 Press Releases, Textron Defense Systems Achieves More Than 100 Kilowatts with J-HPSSL High-Power Laser ( http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/112461/textron-laser-achieves-over-100-kilowatts.html ) U.S. Army Selects Northrop Grumman's 100kW Solid-State Laser for Field Tests at Its High Energy Laser Systems Test Facility ( http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/112471/us-army-picks-northrop-laser-for-field-testing.html )
 
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mabie       2/19/2010 9:19:56 PM

I'm looking forward to seeing a laser-armed F-35B. Great capability for precision attacks against soft ground targets with minimal collateral damage. A2A also has interesting possibilities that can be explored.

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Advanced Tactical Laser A laser cannon that blasts from the air 

By Eric Adams

by John Macneill The Advanced Tactical Laser, fired from a Special Forces A/C-130 Gunship, will have a range of up to 20 miles, as well as pinpoint accuracy and speed-of-light responsiveness. The first generation will employ chemical lasers, which will later be replaced by diode-pumped solid-state lasers powered by electricity. John Macneill 

Directed-energy weapon specialists at the Air Force Research Laboratory are close to overcoming the two main hurdles that have confined laser weapons to science fiction for the last half-century. Tests by lead contractor Boeing have demonstrated that the laser has enough power to function as a weapon, and that the chemical exhaust, which could pose a considerable threat to the weapon&S217;s operators and individuals on the ground, can be safely contained in a sealed system. If all goes according to the U.S. Special Operations Command&S217;s plan, within a decade or so the Advanced Tactical Laser may introduce a new class of weaponry to the battlefield.


The weapon&S217;s first incarnation, expected by 2010 at the earliest, will be a megawatt-class chemical oxygen-iodine laser (COIL) fired from a rotating turret beneath the nose of a C-130 gunship. The beam could be up to 4 inches in diameter and have a 20-mile range&S212;enabling it to burn through vehicles and machinery with a precision and millisecond timing that missiles and cannons can&S217;t achieve. (Cannons, in particular&S212;now centuries old in concept&S212;are tricky to aim. These &S220;indirect fire&S221; weapons must be pointed far from the target to factor in wind speed, humidity, firing force&S212;even the rotation of the Earth.)


Next on the agenda: developing targeting, tracking and firing hardware. Among the questions researchers must answer: how long must the beam linger on a target to have the desired effect. &S220;There are some interesting things with the directed energy technologies that we just don&S217;t know about,&S221; says Lt. Col. Joseph Panetta Jr., program manager for the Advanced Tactical Laser at the U.S. Special Operations Command headquarters at MacDill Air Force Base in Florida. &S220;We need to determine exactly how it will perform on the battlefield.&S221;

Laser weapons are a relative bargain compared with existing long-range weapons: They&S217;re expected to cost $8,000 per shot versus up to hundreds of thousands for missiles. Lasers are also tunable, which adds versatility: When less-than-lethal force is required, such as in urban areas or when hostages are present, the beam&S217;s duration can be reduced so that it disables technology but only injures people. &S220;We want a system that can generate a variety of effects on the battlefield, from damaging something to totally destroying it, to just kind of harassing with it,&S221; Panetta says. &S220;This seems to offer us that.&S221;

Next-gen tactical lasers will likely be electrically-powered and diode-pumped, since chemical lasers require storage and transport of heavy ingredients. The greatest challenge with electric lasers, says Lt. Col. JoAnn Erno, head of the power division at the Air Force Research Laboratory at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio, is managing the heat that&S217;s generated&S212;lasers are only 10 percent efficient, so 90 percent of the power is lost in heat. &S220;Controlling the heat will require active cooling,&S221; she says, &S220;such as spraying the laser&S217;s diodes to keep them from overheating.&S221; Solid-state lasers will be smaller than chemical ones, permitting their use on fighter jets and ground vehicles. The Joint Strike Fighter, due to enter service in 2009, is a well-suited potential platform, says Erno, because its engine includes a metal shaft that spins fast enough to easily power a laser.


Lasers are an example of a weapon that should be developed for multiple uses, says Garrett. &S220;If you can get several (military) branches to use it instead of four different devices that do the same thing, you can make it cheaper by cutting down logistics problems and easing training.&S221;

 
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WarNerd       2/22/2010 3:44:12 AM
Do not expect early deployment.  Just look at the history of the ADS for examples of what weapon grade lasers will face.
 
Those opposed to laser weapons will attempt to block their deployment by claiming that the laser's potential for causing permanent blindness if quickly panned over a wider area instead of dwelling on a single target, and the fact that it is basically an incendiary weapon, make it's potential for use against people a violation of the Geneva Convention or the Rules of War. Or that the fuel or reaction products are potentially poisons, never mind that they will be extremely diluted by the time they reach the ground. 
 
Then politicians (including the military leadership) will become scared, and demand more and more studies to delay deployment until they retire, or until they can find someone to blame if something goes wrong.
 
The most revolting thing about everything is that it is so predictable.
 
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doggtag       2/22/2010 2:20:17 PM

Do not expect early deployment.  Just look at the history of the ADS for examples of what weapon grade lasers will face......

In all actuality, I don't expect aircraft-mounted lasers (in the true sense*) to be the first fielded laser weapons to reach the battlefield.
 
Various threads here months/years ago, we have discusses Raytheon's and Norhtrop-Grumman's developments (under 100kW) of laser-based Phalanx/C-RAM systems, and there have even been counter-IED lasers tested on platforms as small as Humvees (actually, a system based around the Stinger-carrying Avenger air defense platform swapped one of the 4-cell Stinger pods for a laset anti-IED (plus additional components).
 
While certainly these systems are intended to be anti-materiel in nature (used against non-living objects), certainly warfare will reach the point where directed energy weapons will be used on personnel.
 
(* when suggesting lasers "in the true sense", there are already systems such as aircraft-mounted Directed InfraRed CounterMeasures, that effectively direct an IR laser beam of sorts to blind/disable missile seeker heads (SAMs/MANPADS), but these currently are short-range defensive-oriented systems, not offensive to the point they can be used for the proverbial stand-off "hack and slash" of numerous surface targets, as is planned for the ATL system to be mounted in C-130s, and possibly palletized for CH-47 use...and if it'll pallet into a Chinook, it's certain to fit CH-53s and possibly MV-22s as well....)
 
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mabie       2/22/2010 8:29:07 PM
Those DDG-1000 destroyers they're building have a LOT of electricity generating capacity for fancy new weapons.. lasers, railguns, who knows what else?


Do not expect early deployment.  Just look at the history of the ADS for examples of what weapon grade lasers will face......



In all actuality, I don't expect aircraft-mounted lasers (in the true sense*) to be the first fielded laser weapons to reach the battlefield.

 

Various threads here months/years ago, we have discusses Raytheon's and Norhtrop-Grumman's developments (under 100kW) of laser-based Phalanx/C-RAM systems, and there have even been counter-IED lasers tested on platforms as small as Humvees (actually, a system based around the Stinger-carrying Avenger air defense platform swapped one of the 4-cell Stinger pods for a laset anti-IED (plus additional components).

 

While certainly these systems are intended to be anti-materiel in nature (used against non-living objects), certainly warfare will reach the point where directed energy weapons will be used on personnel.

 

(* when suggesting lasers "in the true sense", there are already systems such as aircraft-mounted Directed InfraRed CounterMeasures, that effectively direct an IR laser beam of sorts to blind/disable missile seeker heads (SAMs/MANPADS), but these currently are short-range defensive-oriented systems, not offensive to the point they can be used for the proverbial stand-off "hack and slash" of numerous surface targets, as is planned for the ATL system to be mounted in C-130s, and possibly palletized for CH-47 use...and if it'll pallet into a Chinook, it's certain to fit CH-53s and possibly MV-22s as well....)



 
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doggtag       2/23/2010 9:54:08 AM

Those DDG-1000 destroyers they're building have a LOT of electricity generating capacity for fancy new weapons.. lasers, railguns, who knows what else?.....
Ah, but there lies the problem: the USN is breaking the banks on this one,
suggesting that with rising costs, they may be fortunate to even see 3 completed hulls enter service (if they even get in the water in the first place!).
 
So even though the ships may appear to have excess power in droves, the number of any SSD lasers the ships could deploy would be limited in their contribution at best.
Still, if they do prove feasible for these ships, using the SSD systems, even if in scaled-down form, as a CIWS for carriers is a no-brainer.
 
Naval techs suggest that there are great difficulties in navalizing a lot of the tech around laser systems (be they COIL or SSD),
as far concerns over seawater-environment compatibility with the hardware, and moisture/atmospheric concerns with the beam itself at those low altitudes.
 
But I feel, these issues should be addressed just as many other issues that came about throughout  the history of naval engineering: as cutting-edge tech came from the labs and developers, naval gurus suggested difficulty in practical applications, yet enough effort (R&D money) eventually matured those technologies enough to where nowadays we can't even imagine naval vessels without a lot of the technologies we now take for granted in them, many of which had just as much teething troubles and navalization concerns as lasers do now.
 
Laser weapons will see naval combat at some point, but it won't be the DDG1000 hulls bringing them to the fight in large numbers.
 
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mabie       2/23/2010 10:40:32 AM
The USN is going to cut its teeth when it deploys the Zumwalts (assuming they do actually build them). There's no getting around the need to actually deploy the new tech in the real world and address the problems as they occur. Its going to be expensive but if the new stuff pans out and they actually get things to work, the USN will have heralded in a new age in naval warfare.. no one else will come close for the foreseeable future.
 
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Zad Fnark       2/23/2010 12:21:07 PM

What's the local effect of a high-power air to ground laser?  Apparently it'll do more than sizzle a hole into the earth or set a thatched roof afire.

ZF-

 
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doggtag       2/23/2010 8:08:55 PM

What's the local effect of a high-power air to ground laser?  Apparently it'll do more than sizzle a hole into the earth or set a thatched roof afire.


ZF-

Somewhere on here not all that long ago,
in yet another laser thread,
myself and others posted up various articles,
one of which depicted what the ATL could achieve, if it eventually is able to reach its design goal power output and duration.
The link in question depicted a (theoretical) "strafing run" down a convoy of combat vehicles escorting some POW or civilian vehicles.
The notion being that, with the precision control the ATL could offer (again, at the desired output levels),
it could effectively destroy or damage beyond use,
 a number of vehicle tires, AFV optics, roof-mounted MGs, and numerous other commo bits, enough to render the majority of the convoy useless (immobilized & blind), without harming the prisoners or civilian vehicles.
IIRC, the ideal engagement time down the length of a several-vehicle convoy was only barely a few dozen seconds, if even that.
 
(Short notice; this recollection is the best I can do. Much obliged to anyone who knows what/where that link is...)
 
In all actuality, if there are lasers under testing that can bring down artillery projectiles (thin-skinned rockets and thick-skinned mortar rounds and cannon shells), then tracking and engaging much-larger combat aircraft should be easy, all the moreso damaging if a hot laser strike can ignite fuel, detonate non-IM-compliant munitions, or even damage avionics
(or Laws Of Land Warfare forbid, the pilot...).

 
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