Military History
|
How To Make War
|
Wars Around the World
Rules of Use
How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Air Defense
Discussion Board
Return to Topic Page
Subject:
When the Russians claim the S-400 can...
DarthAmerica
8/8/2007 7:05:39 PM
...defeat stealth aircraft, what are they basing that on? I understand that stealth aircraft arent really "invisible". Just return really low signals. So does the S-400 simply just use brute force or some some other method? Or is this simply marketing hype? -DA
Quote
Reply
Show Only Poster Name and Title
Newest to Oldest
5thGuards
8/8/2007 9:09:40 PM
Using metric-wave anti-stealth radar and using special scanning intensities and ranges .. Little is known about these things..
Quote
Reply
DarthAmerica
8/8/2007 9:45:38 PM
Using metric-wave anti-stealth radar and using special scanning intensities and ranges .. Little is known about these things..
Well actually a lot is know about these things. I'm not trying to be confrontational please understand. However I do know that stealth aircraft are designed with specific RF band in mind in order to detect aircraft. frequency band is selected based on certain criteria. So we aircraft designers make most stealth aircraft they "optimize" the design to counter those bands with various methods. So in theory, an aircraft that is "stealthy" in band A may be perfectly visible in band B. Due to physical limitations it is impossible to be stealthy to the entire spectrum through shaping(F-117). However my understanding is that later generation stealth aircraft which obviously do not rely totally on shaping are stealthy across a very wide range of frequencies. Also, intelligence gathering is very likely to have known about the s-400 during the design phase of that weapon. So some characteristics would be taken into account during the design of later generation stealth aircraft that fly now. Another thing is there is more to stealth than shaping and RAM. Things that are highly classified most likely.
So I wonder exactly what the Russians mean when they say the S-400 detects stealth aircraft. Also, do they mean detects stealth aircraft at operationally useful ranges. I could understand how an aircraft relying solely on shape and RAM could be more detectable. Even if so, physics would suggest that while certain stealth aircraft could be detected this way. The use of a different "type" of radar may mean very different performance chracteristics compared to traditional radar.
BUT because I only study radars as a hobby and very casually, I'm limited in my analysis.
-DA
Quote
Reply
displacedjim
8/8/2007 10:13:30 PM
...defeat stealth aircraft, what are they basing that on? I understand that stealth aircraft arent really "invisible". Just return really low signals. So does the S-400 simply just use brute force or some some other method? Or is this simply marketing hype?
-DA
GRAVE STONE, 96L6, and BIG BIRD are not LVHF radars, so they aren't gaining anything merely by going to very long wavelengths. This isn't really my area but I'll start off the discussion by simplistically just suggesting what they have is better hardware and better processing techniques (less system noise generated within the radar, better filtering of the noise, better recognition of a target return signal amongst the noise, greater sensitivity within the radar to smaller signals) that decreases Smin (the minimum returned signal strength that can be processed by the radar), as well as better radiated signal waveforms and their attendant processing techniques that provide greater effective power (stuff that I can't properly explain like pulse packets, pulse coding, multiple frequencies, I don't know what else offhand because I'm not a radar engineer). If you look at the radar range equation this will increase the maximum detection range for a given RCS.
Quote
Reply
displacedjim
8/8/2007 10:26:35 PM
So I wonder exactly what the Russians mean when they say the S-400 detects stealth aircraft. Also, do they mean detects stealth aircraft at operationally useful ranges.
Eactly. As you well know, it's not a matter of somehow the S-400 can see all stealth aircraft at all ranges. Some threat radars (that means I'm not talking about nearly unique cases like an OTHB radar, but the radars associated with a SAM system for example) will never detect an LO aircraft in flight. Some other threat radars will, but at best only within a dozen or a few dozen miles. A few threat radars might be able to track some LO aircraft within several dozen miles. The S-400 represents an improvement over older SAM systems for sure. However, as a generalization I think it's reasonable to say the difference from older SAMs vs. an LO target to the S-400 vs. an LO target is still smaller than the difference from older SAMs vs. an LO target to those same older SAMs vs. a non-LO target.
Quote
Reply
Latest
News
Most
Read
Most
Commented
Hot
Topics
WEAPONS: Unjammable Wire Controlled UAVs
RUSSIA: Russia Claims a Lot More Than Ukraine
ARMOR: Russia Rebuilds Its Tank Forces
ARTILLERY: Fire Weaver and Long Spike
ARMOR: Evolution of Tank Warfare in Ukraine
SURFACE FORCES : Ada Class Corvettes
ARMOR: Evolution of Tank Warfare in Ukraine
WEAPONS: Putting a Spike in North Korean Aggression
AIR WEAPONS: The Ukraine Unmanned Systems Force
PROCUREMENT: The Russian Smuggling Industry
AFGHANISTAN: Afghanistan March 2024
ATTRITION: Patterns of American Combat Casualties
ELECTRONIC WEAPONS: Norway Again Attacked by Russian Jamming
SURFACE FORCES : Unmanned LUSV Ships at Sea
MURPHY'S LAW: China Harasses Foreign Investment it Encouraged
PROCUREMENT: Russian Demand and North Korean Arms Production
PROCUREMENT: Russian Demand and North Korean Arms Production
WARPLANES: F22 Gets an End Date
ARTILLERY: More Truck Mounted Artillery for Ukraine
SPACE: Russian Roscosmos Retreating
INTELLIGENCE: Americans Use AI to Plan Airstrikes
SPACE: Russian Roscosmos Retreating
ARTILLERY: More Truck Mounted Artillery for Ukraine
AIR DEFENSE: Russian Air Defense Tries Something New
SUBMARINES: Stumbling Through Submarine Repairs
SPECIAL OPERATIONS: A Decade of CIA Operations in Ukraine
SURFACE FORCES : Despised LCS Survives with Upgrades
SYRIA: Syria March 2024
WARPLANES: F-35 Aircraft in Action
LEADERSHIP: Russia’s Wartime Economic Crisis
Subscribe to Our RSS Feed
Armor: New American M10 Tank
Air Weapons: Western Russia Under Attack
Artillery: Artillery Ammunition Quality and Quantity
Surface Forces: Russian Black Sea Fleet Disappears
WARS China: China Needs South Korea More Than North Korea
Surface Forces: Naval Reload Realities
Air Weapons: Dealing With FPV UAVs
Special Operations: Somali Pirates are Back
Armor: K2 Tanks For Everyone
WARS Russia: Can Russia Continue the War After 2024?
WARS Korea: Korea March 2024
Logistics: The Black Sea Blockade
Procurement: Ukraine War Crippled Russian Arms Exports
Attrition: Russian Losses so Far in Ukraine
Procurement: French Support for Ukraine
NBC Weapons: Chinese Biowar Laboratories in California
ATTRITION: Russian Losses so Far in Ukraine
PROCUREMENT: French Support for Ukraine
ARMOR: New American M10 Tank
AIR WEAPONS: Western Russia Under Attack
ARTILLERY: Artillery Ammunition Quality and Quantity
SURFACE FORCES : Naval Reload Realities
PROCUREMENT: Ukraine War Crippled Russian Arms Exports
ARMOR: K2 Tanks For Everyone
AIR WEAPONS: Dealing With FPV UAVs
SPECIAL OPERATIONS: Somali Pirates are Back
LOGISTICS: The Black Sea Blockade
PROCUREMENT: Ukraine War Crippled Russian Arms Exports
PROCUREMENT: Ukraine War Crippled Russian Arms Exports
PROCUREMENT: Ukraine War Crippled Russian Arms Exports
PROCUREMENT: Ukraine War Crippled Russian Arms Exports
PROCUREMENT: Ukraine War Crippled Russian Arms Exports
KOREA: Korea March 2024
CHINA: China Needs South Korea More Than North Korea
SURFACE FORCES : Russian Black Sea Fleet Disappears
ARTILLERY: Artillery Ammunition Quality and Quantity
Armor: New American M10 Tank
Warplane Weapons: Western Russia Under Attack
News
How To Make War
Wars Around The World
Austin Bay's On Point
StrategyTalk
Dirty Little Secrets
Features
Al Nofi's CIC
Videos
Photos
Jokes
Community
Military Discussion Boards
Military Jokes
Military Photos
Military Book Reviews
StrategyPage
Account Manager
Login
Feedback
About Us
Search
Advertise With Us
Search