I think it's definetly among the top air forces in th world, better in some areas(air-air fights), worse in others(massive bombings), like was said before, it does what it was designed to do, and well. BTW: Sent: for yor growing edjucation, "HA'IL" means "Force"(a large group), "HA" means "The", and "AVIR" means "Air", all together - "Heyl Ha'Avir" (grammar changes) - The Air-Force ;)

The air force which wins the last major air war has got to be the best..because it won and has the experience. I don't believe the Gulf or the Balkans count as air wars - too one-sided (perhaps they're supposed to be). But, since Israel won the last really "hot" air war and the whole US/UK allied campaign was based heavily on Israeli experience of knocking out the "Soviet" ground control systems, the kudos has to go to Israel. Don't know who the "best" is, but every winner seems to use the Israeli strategy...

"Man for man, I would say that the Heyl Ha'avir is equal to the USAF. Experience wise, very similar, with the Americans and Brits having the edge. Air combat--well, Israel hasn't been in air combat since I think 1984, whereas the US has fought one major and two minor air/air wars since then (Gulf War I, Bosnia, Kosovo). In the last two examples, less than twelve pilots saw any shooting air/air. So again, I would say about equal." OK, I'm not trying to be intentionally arguementative here ..... but I just don't see how Israel can lay any claim whatsoever to being all that experianced today in 2003. Maybe they could have in 93, 83, or 73 ..... but those decades are long gone. How can you say that Israel has comparable experiance when you sight the last time they were engaged was 19 years ago? how many of those Israeli pilots are still on active flying status? Are we talking about the instance where 25 F-15s took on the 90 Migs are something like that? I'd be suprised if 5 of them were still flying 19 years adter the fact. In the last 20 years I would really love to see actual facts regarding combat hours, strike missions, instances of air to air combat, etc for all the air forces in the world. Anyone know where to find something like that? Personally, all I see are opinions that seem to be just pulled out of thin air.

The Israelis have combat-trained higher commanders at the squadron levels, I imagine--guys that flew in the Bekaa Valley Turkey Shoot of '82 (I think there were a few scattered incidents with the Syrians around '83/'84 as well). Their high command still has a few veterans of Yom Kippur as well. So that experience gets filtered down. Israelis are also now regular attendees at Red Flag, which is as close as you can get to actual war. In fact, many Red Flag students have said that war is easier! In air-to-air experience, outside of Red Flag, both sides are roughly equal in that neither has had any intensive experience--Israel since 1982, the US since 1991. I don't count Kosovo because the Serbian Air Force was pretty much shut down after the first week of air operations, and even during that, was of limited use. I think we've hit a basic Clintonesque wall here: define "experience." If by actual air to air shooting experience, then the average Israeli pilot has none, whereas the Americans have about two dozen pilots with some, the Saudis and the Dutch one each. All the Vietnam generation of American pilots have since retired. As far as war experience, the IDF has carried out many airstrikes in Lebanon and a few in Syria that are opposed with antiaircraft fire. The Palestinians, of course, don't have AAA or SAMs, so that per se doesn't count (though the stress of combat is still there, I'm sure). American, British, and some NATO pilots still have the experience of dealing with two first-rate air defense systems (Iraq's and Serbia's), so I would give them a slighter edge here.

"I think we've hit a basic Clintonesque wall here: define "experience." I'm pretty sure we have ... lol. I'm not disagreeing with you on the whole. Mainly just the use of the word "slight". To me, an Air Force is more than about dog fights. Its about gaining uncontested air superiority and then bombing the enemy into submission. Thats why I take issue with the amount of experiance Israel has. I have no doubt theyre good at what they do. But good and experianced are two totally different things. While the US or UK may have a dozen or so pilots with an aerial victory, both have hundreds that have dodged sams and AAA while flying combat missions over enemy held territory. The same can not be said about Israel.

I just thought that I would throw in the French here. Most Americans don't know (or conveniently forget) that in Desert Storm the Armee d'lair (spelling) were operating from a forward airbase deep in Iraq and carried out many GA missions. That alone is probably more experience than the current Israeli AF..

Some thoughts on what makes the IAF unique: 1. Selection criteria for pilots - Israel recruits pilots right out of high school. This makes Israeli pilots younger (with probably better reflexes) and more experienced at the same age as their counterparts who first go to college or a college-like military academy before beginning flight school. 2. Unique electrionics capabilities - Israeli engineers have world class experience in designing sophisticated custom chips and signal processing equipment as well as large scale systems integration. Intel developed the orginal 8088 microprocessor as well as the Pentium in Israeli facilities. The military gets to cherry pick the best engineers. The results include advanced AA missles such as the Python 4 and Derby which have off boresight capability (only now being developed by the US), as well as helmet mounted cueing as aiming. 3. Unique understanding of opposition weapon systems and engineering approaches -- Israel benefited greatly from the huge influx of Sovet engineers in recent years and is now one of the leading contractors in upgrading Eastern European Migs with new avionics (e.g. the highly successful Romanian Aero program). 4. The IAF is a small institution compared to the USAF and therefore more nimble. Also, as mentioned by other posters Israel's focus is regional rather than global so there is a benefit in specializing. 5. Israel has developed unique battle management protocols and methods. For example Israel was a pioneer in developing elite special forces to laser designate and otherwise scope out high priority targets. The IAF also has probably the best after battle damage assessment methods and techniques. Third, some of the communications problems in integrating land and air forces that the U.S. is only now beginning to tackle is not an issue. 6. Israel benefits greatly from its close relationship with the U.S. and gets the benefit of the huge investments made in U.S. training and technology capabilities. 7. The IAF has a unique culture and tradition which fosters innovation and excellence. Israeli fighter pilots are national heros and their status far surpasses their peers elsewhere.

It seem as though we have several conversations of the best air force here with no perameters. In my opinion for their size the Isreali air force is incredible. They are in my opinion the Middle East'superpower' However if you want to rate the air forces you start with one and only one. 1. US (larger, logistics, well trained, experience) 2.England (same reason)RAF-always good 3.Russia (good equipment, if they could keep them flying) 4.Isreal (same as US,England)+ (for them no possibility for failure)-but small 5.Germany(tie)(eurofighter!!!-ooooh) 6.France(mirage,euro) 7.China (huge #'s, ok equipment, but modernizing) 8.India (their working on it, new russian stuff) 9.Japan (good stuff,for defense only) 10.S.Korea(US equipment) Hey just a opinion, now have at me if you will.

I think the thing that really gives the IAF the edge above other airforces is the rigour of its pilot training program and the extremely high wash out rate. I am told that, of all the trainees who begin pilot training in the US, roughly 40-50% win their wings. Now, let's concede that there has already been a substantial winnowing out process before the pilot's course begins (on medical, educational and other grounds). Yet, in Israel there are similarly rigorous selection criteria for admittance to pilot training. Yet, the Israeli Air Force maintains performance standards in the training itself that are much higher than any other air force. Thus, only about 3-5% of trainees who have already passed the initial hurdles and have been admitted to the course ever graduate and win their wings. Moreover, of that select 3-5%, the creme de la creme go to fighters, the second best to helicopters, and the third best to transports. Thus, Israeli fighter pilots go through a much more rigourous selection process than pilots in any other airforce. While there might certainly be pilots in the US, RAF and other airforces that might be as good as the average ISraeli fighter jock, as a group, the Israelis are head and shoulders above the aircrew of any other airforce. When you add to that the technlogical prowess of the Israeli arms industry that produces AA missiles and avionics that are well in advance of those used by other countries, the result is a pretty redoubtable package.

Wrong data; you're using Israeli air defense as a measure of air power. Many great air forces require pilots for a range of specialized missions including multi-aircrew such as strike, recon, maritime patrol/strike, strategic lift and air-to-air refuelling. You may rest assured that those pilots in the US or UK who are "streamed" for fast jets are every bit as good as your IAF 18 year olds.