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Subject: Does israel have the best Air Force?
Worf_Israel    8/17/2003 7:15:10 AM
By what im told it is said Israel has the best trained air force in the world (i find it to be very true). it has been proven that the Israeli air force has taken on incredible odds when it comes to air force battle for example: when Israel attack the Iraq's nuclear facility, Israel sent 5 F-15 fighters to destroy the nuclear lab facility - after the f-15 cross to Iraq's air space 25 MG-22/23 (cant remember the MG number) were sent to destroy the F-15. NOT ONLY did the israel complete their mission they destroyed all 25 enemy aircraft without losing one of their own. even today it is CLEAR FACT that most US Air Force Tactics are tactics that were shown by the Israel - even today Israel has joined training with the USA (they don't talk about it) and the Israel pilots teach American pilots.(note:if you didn't know Israel and the UK has more joined training with the USA then any other country)
 
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Ezekiel    RE:Does israel have the best Air Force?   8/25/2005 6:46:49 AM
Israel has the best pilots hands down for the fact that America the strongest airforce in the world learns their tricks and tactics from their Israeli Planes. When one makes the argument that it doesn't matter about the pilot they use American equipment, think again. First Israel designed two plane the Kfir desighned alot like the french mirage and then in the 80's the Lavi. THis is where it gets interesting, at the time America didn't want Israel to make this plane because it was a better plane then what America had at the time, America said that they would supply the airforce and Israel scrapped it. THere is much talk about how many of the desighn's in the F-22 has some of the LAvi in it. Also the Planes israel receives from America, first thing the israeli's do is gut the electronics, Israel's electronic are superior. Also israel some of the best surface to surface missiles in all the armed forces of the world. Technologies Israel has refused to share with any country. Israel was the country that gave the US it's first hands on peek at a mig, when an Iraqi pilot defected in the 70's to Israel, Israel gave it to the American's but i'm pretty sure they took a peak before they gave it away. Israel as the third largest arms supplier in the world has recently discussed a new plane due to the American embargo, maybe the f-22 won't be the best in 10 years. so in my opinion Israel may have the best pilots in the world but as a defense force it is primarily a force with a point of origin to defend. America of course would win from mere quantity but quality i don't know. From what i've heard from U.S. pilots who have gone up against Israeli's in mock combat, they say that they are the best they've ever faced. From what i understand these pilots go such a rigorous selecting and training process which is unparalled by any airforce today.
 
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Heorot    RE:Us should give Isreal half there f117   9/6/2005 6:34:25 PM
"I think we should give Isreal half our f-117's." Oh? and what has Israel done for the US lately? If you are going to give them away, the UK and Australia are better bets. At least they turn up to the party and don't just sit on the sidelines.
 
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Yimmy    RE:Us should give Isreal half there f117   9/6/2005 9:07:37 PM
The UK was offered the F117 in the past, and we rejected them. At the end of the day they are not as good as our Tornados.
 
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violentnuke    F15 did escort the F16 bombersRE:the israeli's strike in iraq   9/8/2005 5:31:31 PM
I believe Israelies F15s were involved over Iraq as cover for the F16 strike force
 
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violentnuke    Australian School's best, Swiss are good tooRE:Does israel have the best Air Force?   9/8/2005 5:39:19 PM
Aviation Week had a piece on the difficult art of creating the best airforce and air fighting school. It seems the Australians are the top notch and extremely aggressive with their F18s. That said the US air force's training has other aspects the Australians do not have or which the format of the Australians cannot provide within the flight hours allocated. What to prioritize on training is still a black art. Israel is best on its home field, that is for sure. However, on a comprehensive basis, I think they would get their arses kicked by the Swiss in the Alps, for example, imo. Now the Swiss are some nut cases, weaving like this through mountains at high gs while computing quickly interceptions and situational awareness is something I just cannot even begin to imagine. Watching them just loses me, I don't know how they keep track of the whole thing themselves.
 
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violentnuke    Systems makes jealousRE:not the best, but close   9/8/2005 5:44:17 PM
The US victory over Bagdad had the Israeli Generals jealous as reported in an article of the time. Again, it is not just the specific accrobatic feats but a solid professional system that as unit with other forces on the ground or at sea make it for a best integrated system. The motto is: It's the artillery, cavalry and infantry together stupid.
 
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violentnuke    For what they have and expect, yes   9/8/2005 5:54:24 PM
The Israeli air force basicaly predicts embargos and flies extremely well with less. That is the basis of their training. They do excellent job, and then they take things off and do the same job with less. It's not their philosophy, because it's not the best, it's just what they have to deal with and they definitely are the best at it. I remember a French Foreign Legion dude training in Guyana with US Navy Seals, and he could not believe they had to have their food heli-supplied. He called them a bunch of pu$$ie$ for not eating the forest magots and waiting in line for MREs and making all kinds of noises. He did say they bring wine with them while the Americans don't, eh eh eh, but not during operations except for medicinal purposes, of course :-) In the same way our Air Force is really well taken care of and it must make Israelies who literaly sleep in their pit or under the wings laugh. However an airforce is not like grunt work. It requires excellent health from the airplane and the pilot. Trying to cut corners or push physical limits while flying is a major NO NO. It's really for desperate situations. But I do not think ISraeli pilots are starved like Soviet Tupolev drivers in Africa. My aunt had a business with them there and she said when she cooked some steaks, they would eat for like three days so starved they were. Poor guys. No wonder they crash.
 
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tinashe    Come on guys   5/23/2007 7:44:01 PM
I know this has been discussed a lot. But i'm neutral cause I'm Zimbabwean by birth.Yes the USAF is great and has these funky technologies...but do any of you knuckle heads read the guiness book of records? Israeli pilots hold the greatest number of planes shot down with the best pilots shooting at least 13 planes within a war period. And the fact that America sells planes is insignificant. Have none of you heard of Israel Military Industry? they develop the best missile technology ever. This is is supported by facts not just conclusions drawn because America has gone round bullying kids for oil. And by the way IAF stops an average >90% of terrorist attacks...How many roadside bombs does the USAF stop huh? How many Brits has the USAF killed in "friendly fire" in iraq huh. And most of all, why the hell could the USAF not be quick enough to respond to 9/11? Clearly you cant compare Israeli quality to Americans. Americans are just good at causing massive explosions killing everything (including their own men) then claiming victory cause they have more stuff left. IAF is without any dispute the best air force this world has ever seen. 
 
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Herald1234       5/23/2007 9:11:10 PM

I know this has been discussed a lot. But i'm neutral cause I'm Zimbabwean by birth.

You do know that I regard you as coming from a failed state and that state is an enemy of the United States?

Yes the USAF is great and has these funky technologies...but do any of you knuckle heads read the guiness book of records?

Since it is published in English, yes I do. What is your point?

 Israeli pilots hold the greatest number of planes shot down with the best pilots shooting at least 13 planes within a war period.

Marianas Turkey Shoot. Cactus Air Force. the Flying Tigers, The Black Sheep and Pappy Boyington,  Gabby Gabreski., Richard Bong, Joseph McConnerll etc.;  Plus there are a lot of Russian, British, Polish, Finnish, French, Italian, and GERMAN pilots who would dispute you. 

And the fact that America sells planes is insignificant.

The fact that America sells planes is significant. It means we KNOW what we are doing.


Have none of you heard of Israel Military Industry? they develop the best missile technology ever.

Yes heard of the firm. Best missiles? I would suggest that the Russians Germans and British are extremely competitive with Israeli missiles. Considering that both the radar guided missile and the heatseeker are AMERICAN innovations I suggest that American missiles are extremely competitive as well-especially as most EU Russian, practically most Israeli A@A  missiles all trace their origins to either FALCON, SIDEWINDER, or SPARROW.
.

 This is is supported by facts not just conclusions drawn because America has gone round bullying kids for oil. And by the way IAF stops an average >90% of terrorist attacks...

???????????????????????????????? Have you lost your mind? Who do you think supplied Israel her IADS, McGee?

How many roadside bombs does the USAF stop huh? How many Brits has the USAF killed in "friendly fire" in iraq huh. And most of all, why the hell could the USAF not be quick enough to respond to 9/11?

1. Several  thousand by last count through air reconnaissance.
2. The number does not exceed fifteen, which is remarkable since the interoperability of US and British communications was fubared. 
3. Physics, you idiot. You try to close an airliner five minutes from its target when you are twenty minutes away wheels going up and going to afterburner after a surprised FAA finally notifies the USAF that some maniacs are flying airplanes that they've hijacked. Russia couldn't keep out a little single engine prop driven plane flown by a flight student to Moscow.


Clearly you cant compare Israeli quality to Americans. Americans are just good at causing massive explosions killing everything (including their own men) then claiming victory cause they have more stuff left. IAF is without any dispute the best air force this world has ever seen.

I would dispute that easily. If we wanted to smash a target flat [say Robert Mugabe's capital] we could. Of if we just wanted to kill Robert Mugabe and his flunkies, we should be able to put a bomb in his lap. Israel cannot do this easily. She lacks the means.

 Next time do your homework.

Herald

 
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french stratege       5/23/2007 9:22:40 PM
I would like to point out that Israeli air force while quite good, train less than UK or France for example, and do much less dissimilar training with other top air forces.
In % they have much more pilots than those air forces and so recuitment is less in quality.
Its ECM are also below those of UK, France and USA of course.
I could also mention that their stockpile of BVR missile is quite low (but it is the will of USA to not deliver more).
Destroying arab planes, is not a proof of being the best.
 
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